Whats with all the Autism Speaks hate.

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nostromo
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10 Oct 2012, 2:45 am

DerStadtschutz wrote:

I don't really pay them much attention, but from what I have read, I really strongly dislike them... Why? Well, it's because everything they say paints us as this burden on humanity.

You have interpreted a different message from me, the way I see their message is being directed at 'Autism' , not Autistic people.

DerStadtschutz wrote:

It's all about supporting the troubled parent of the autistic kid,

With the child and their well being wholly dependant upon their parents and therefore reliant on the parents well being, surely this is a most worthy aim?

DerStadtschutz wrote:

or trying to change the autistic kid so the parents will feel better about themselves.

I can't see where you get that from.

DerStadtschutz wrote:

It's not about getting support for people with autism. it's not about HELPING autistic people,

Correct, there are other organisations that do that.

DerStadtschutz wrote:

but rather eliminating them. It's just like almost every other damn support group related to autism out there, and it's annoying as hell. Why can't they just f***ing accept us or help us? They don't give a f**k about the people who are autistic, they only seem to care about the other people whose lives we supposedly complicate so much.

Repeat message

DerStadtschutz wrote:

That, and I believe autism is something you're born with. It's not like one day you got a virus and it made you socially dumb, and if they just kill that virus, everything will just suddenly click, and you'll be the life of the party. It doesn't work that way, not at all.

Until we know, we cannot know, so that is just your opinion.

DerStadtschutz wrote:

There is no "cure," and it's not a disease to be "cured" in the first place. It's not a disease at all.

I'll grant you that its not a disease by definition it cannot be.

DerStadtschutz wrote:

It, like any other trait one can have, has its advantages and its disadvantages.

Again Autism is not yet shown to be a trait, and any disadvantages or advantages are arguable.

DerStadtschutz wrote:

I can't speak for anybody else, but that is MY problem with autism speaks, and I imagine many other people on the spectrum would agree.

Maybe so. You can't ask those more affected like my son, they can't tell you.

Chami
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10 Oct 2012, 1:17 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:

You bring up an interesting ethical question.

If a person would live out their lives being a ward of the state needing public assistance, when a cure exists that would enable them to be able to live and work on their own, does society have a right to force them to take that or cut off their welfare?

No, because many of these people could and would be able to work if only society were less toxic and not inclined to discriminate against autism spectrum behaviors. When part of a job application involves a social skills/extroversion test and this is perfectly legal, frankly I don't think it's our fault if we can't get hired.

Chami
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10 Oct 2012, 1:23 pm

dalurker wrote:

In what way is administering medical treatments that would eliminate impairments, "eliminating" someone?

If impairments were all that were being eliminated, you might have a point, however autism is pervasive by definition. For better or worse, autism is not something I "have", nor am I a "person with autism"; autism is an integral part of who I am, my personality, my strengths and weaknesses. Zapping all the autism out of me, if that could be done, would be akin to giving someone a lobotomy.

Sweetleaf
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10 Oct 2012, 1:24 pm

Chami wrote:

thewhitrbbit wrote:

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Sweetleaf
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10 Oct 2012, 1:24 pm

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

In what way is administering medical treatments that would eliminate impairments, "eliminating" someone?

much better wording than I put it in.

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dalurker
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10 Oct 2012, 5:21 pm

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

In what way is administering medical treatments that would eliminate impairments, "eliminating" someone?

Impairments are all to be eliminated. You don't want to admit it. If some autistics can live as high-functioning with lots of abilities, both basic and advanced abilities , why couldn't anyone else exist the same way? Why not let the low-functioning get whichever qualities that cause the very high-functioning to have their abilities?

ReineDeLaSeine14
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11 Oct 2012, 1:45 am

I wonder how a cure would correct impairments without radical change of personality or radical change in ability (even "NT" people have differing and sometimes very advanced abilities)

In my case, we believe my autism was triggered by a gene deletion as that deletion has caused much physical havoc and I am the only autistic person in my family. Replacing the missing gene and making my DNA replicate correctly would not only help if not totally reverse my autism, it would give me physical health which would be awesome!

I like who I am...I just wish there was a way I could become more in-step with people...as I have issues even with the ones who accept me as I am.

As for Autism Speaks...I don't mind them much; I just don't really endorse them. That video, albeit true for many people, was really harsh..."I will wreck your marriage" and the lady who said that she didn't kill herself because her NT daughter needed her (as well as the autistic one but that was not made clear)

ETA: This is of interest I'm sure...the reversal of some funky brain circuitry is very possible.

Quote:

People with autism suffer from a pervasive developmental disorder of the brain that becomes evident in early childhood. Peter Scheiffele and Kaspar Vogt, Professors at the Biozentrum of the University of Basel, have identified a specific dysfunction in neuronal circuits that is caused by autism. In the journal Science, the scientists also report about their success in reversing these neuronal changes. These findings are an important step in drug development for the treatment for autism.

Link: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 080642.htm

Chami
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11 Oct 2012, 10:20 am

dalurker wrote:

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

In what way is administering medical treatments that would eliminate impairments, "eliminating" someone?

Impairments are all to be eliminated. You don't want to admit it. If some autistics can live as high-functioning with lots of abilities, both basic and advanced abilities , why couldn't anyone else exist the same way? Why not let the low-functioning get whichever qualities that cause the very high-functioning to have their abilities?

You seem to think that neurotypicals and other people do not have impairments. If we got rid of everyone who was impaired in some way, the world would be more or less empty of humans.

DerStadtschutz
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11 Oct 2012, 10:42 am

dalurker wrote:

DerStadtschutz wrote:

I don't really pay them much attention, but from what I have read, I really strongly dislike them... Why? Well, it's because everything they say paints us as this burden on humanity. It's all about supporting the troubled parent of the autistic kid, or trying to change the autistic kid so the parents will feel better about themselves. It's not about getting support for people with autism.

What is "support"?

Quote:

it's not about HELPING autistic people, but rather eliminating them.

In what way is administering medical treatments that would eliminate impairments, "eliminating" someone?

Quote:

It's just like almost every other damn support group related to autism out there, and it's annoying as hell. Why can't they just f***ing accept us or help us? They don't give a f**k about the people who are autistic, they only seem to care about the other people whose lives we supposedly complicate so much. That, and I believe autism is something you're born with. It's not like one day you got a virus and it made you socially dumb, and if they just kill that virus, everything will just suddenly click, and you'll be the life of the party. It doesn't work that way, not at all.

Why don't you look at some of the research that has been and is being done. It's very sophisticated compared to the way you describe others' idea of causes. I don't want to go around begging others to "please, accept me", nearly crying and wimpering, only to grow old for the rest of my life, then be forgotten.

Quote:

There is no "cure," and it's not a disease to be "cured" in the first place. It's not a disease at all.

They need to do research to devise a cure first. If there is no disease involved, why do so many of us need help and support?

Quote:

It, like any other trait one can have, has its advantages and its disadvantages.

It isn't a trait. And the advantages are only held by a small percentage of the spectrum who aren't burdened with the disadvantages. The rest of the spectrum is burdened with all the disadvantages, while getting few of the advantages.

Quote:

I can't speak for anybody else, but that is MY problem with autism speaks, and I imagine many other people on the spectrum would agree.

Many other geniuses on the spectrum agree, as they don't want competition from too many others on the spectrum, and cure could make the others able to compete with them. The goal is to make sure all autistics have basic communication skills and abilities to do basic living tasks independently.

"support" is helping you with whatever difficulties you might have as a result of having ASD.

I got news for ya, bud. You're gonna be forgotten anyway. How are they NOT eliminating autistics when they talk about screening for autism before the child's even born and then aborting the fetus if they think it's gonna have autism? Yes, it IS a trait. I don't go around begging others to like me or accept me either. If they don't like me, they're not worth my time, and I don't bother trying to waste it making them happy. But that doesn't change the fact that I wish people would just get to know one another before passing judgement. That goes for ALL people, not just NTs and aspies. Everything coming out of autism speaks comes from the "oh, woe is me, I have an autistic child. My life is now ruined! Please help me!! !" I haven't seen anything from them from the perspective of "s**t, I have autism, and it makes life hard to figure out sometimes. I need coping skills." It views and treats autistics as nothing but a huge burden that needs to be cured or gotten rid of so the rest of the world won't have to deal with us.

You're crazy if you think anybody on the spectrum who gets advantages(that's in the eye of the beholder, by the way) has ZERO disadvantage. EVERYBODY has disadvantages in life. You won't convince me I'm diseased.

dalurker
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11 Oct 2012, 7:31 pm

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

You seem to think that neurotypicals and other people do not have impairments. If we got rid of everyone who was impaired in some way, the world would be more or less empty of humans.

Why do you choose to make up absurd strawmen? Of course some of them have impairments. Anyone should have the opportunity to be rid of their impairments. What do you mean get rid of someone? The goal is to bring to them the abilities they need and want, rather than letting a small group keep the abilities to themselves. Their continuing lives would improve as a result. You're likely the one who doesn't want them around if they were to get the same aptitude/potential that you have. You likely want to continue to have unfair competition with them.

Sweetleaf
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11 Oct 2012, 7:36 pm

dalurker wrote:

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

You seem to think that neurotypicals and other people do not have impairments. If we got rid of everyone who was impaired in some way, the world would be more or less empty of humans.

There is no small group with special advanced abilities that keep them to themselves, that's an absurd strawman you've created to argue against anyone who opposes radical changes to ones neurology and genetics in an attempt to cure them of all ailments.

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dalurker
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11 Oct 2012, 7:43 pm

DerStadtschutz wrote:

I got news for ya, bud. You're gonna be forgotten anyway.

Well, they're not going to forget the great goal being embarked on.

Quote:

How are they NOT eliminating autistics when they talk about screening for autism before the child's even born and then aborting the fetus if they think it's gonna have autism?

They don't necessarily mean abortion will occur due to screening. There may be very early implementation of cure as a result of prenatal tests.

Quote:

Yes, it IS a trait. I don't go around begging others to like me or accept me either. If they don't like me, they're not worth my time, and I don't bother trying to waste it making them happy. But that doesn't change the fact that I wish people would just get to know one another before passing judgement. That goes for ALL people, not just NTs and aspies.

Then this acceptance rhetoric is really annoying.

Quote:

Everything coming out of autism speaks comes from the "oh, woe is me, I have an autistic child. My life is now ruined! Please help me!! !" I haven't seen anything from them from the perspective of "sh**, I have autism, and it makes life hard to figure out sometimes. I need coping skills."

They should have something from the perspective of someone with autism like you said, minus that coping skills crap. We're not moral deviants, psychos, or junkies. We don't need to "cope" with brutalizing and destructive impairments. We need the impairments cured once and for all. We can form goals on our own.

Quote:

You're crazy if you think anybody on the spectrum who gets advantages(that's in the eye of the beholder, by the way) has ZERO disadvantage. EVERYBODY has disadvantages in life. You won't convince me I'm diseased.

Advantages are not in the eye of the beholder. Abilities due to the structure of the brain are real and objective. Not all have disadvantages. Saying that is just a catchy way to defend the interests and reputation of the elite.

dalurker
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11 Oct 2012, 7:51 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

dalurker wrote:

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

You seem to think that neurotypicals and other people do not have impairments. If we got rid of everyone who was impaired in some way, the world would be more or less empty of humans.

Yes there is. The group of autistics with guaranteed basic life skills, super high IQs, great careers, and relationships beyond their family, are a small percentage of the spectrum. Face it. The way many other autistics have to struggle to just get through basic things day to day while losing out on opportunities, is miserable. I don't think this is a bearable reality. Being too scared of radical change isn't a valid argument. Those who can't handle controversy are not helping the issue, and aren't contributing anything by whining due to their fear of a conflict being started.

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11 Oct 2012, 8:46 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

dalurker wrote:

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

Chami wrote:

dalurker wrote:

You seem to think that neurotypicals and other people do not have impairments. If we got rid of everyone who was impaired in some way, the world would be more or less empty of humans.

@dalurker.lets get real,your on a complex website using complex language to make very good points at that.on the autism spectrum as a whole you would be part of that so called elite group of autistics with special abilities

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Sweetleaf
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11 Oct 2012, 8:58 pm

dalurker wrote:

Ok so because a few people with autism are successful and have basic life skills and have more or less learned to live successfully with their autism or whatever. It's not like some tightly knit group of superiors with special abilities that they hoard for themselves because they don't want anyone else to succeed.

Its some people with conditions like autism still manage to gain financial success, but then why should ones worth be based on financial success is my question. Sure it would be nice if everyone could just do everything themselves and no one needed anyones help but that's not going to happen.

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dalurker
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11 Oct 2012, 9:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

The ones who are telling others not to get cures that would increase others' abilities, come from that successful group.

Quote:

Its some people with conditions like autism still manage to gain financial success, but then why should ones worth be based on financial success is my question.

What does worth have to do with anything? Money exists first of all to meet needs and wants. That is why all try to get money/success. This is reality.

Quote:

Sure it would be nice if everyone could just do everything themselves and no one needed anyones help but that's not going to happen.

Yes it will. Whether you like it or not. The intellectual success mongers you protect are going to put up with it whether they like it or not, contrary to the pessimism of depressive individuals.

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