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IsabellaLinton
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22 Apr 2024, 3:19 pm

carlos55 wrote:
This is the difference v disability debate.

Lots of NTs including family relatives may display autistic like traits or BAP (broad autism phenotype) but they are not to the level of autism or where it is a serious problem impacting independent life or employment prospects, this is particularly true for male relatives and less so for female ones as traditionally less expectations were placed on them.



The video was about neurodivergent people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but BAP isn't classified as neurodivergent because people with BAP don't have a neurodevelopmental disorder in the same way that an autistic person does.

If someone does have BAP I assume you're right, that it's not to the same level as autism. That's it's very nature. That's not to say that my relatives or the people described in this video would be classed as BAP. I can't go back in time and diagnose my late relatives but they do meet the current criteria for ASD in my opinion, and they also match the characteristics described in this video.

Sure, some people past, present, or future might be BAP but that's not what this video was about.

Could you please elaborate on what you mean about women? Why were there "traditionally less expectations" placed on them compared to men? In my opinion men were a little more free to be socially awkward or reserved, introverted hard-workers who focused intensely on personal skills and interests rather than personal communication or the expression of emotions. Traditionally, women had to be social butterflies, smile and make pretty, wear bras and hosiery not to mention high heels, douse themselves in fragrances or cosmetics, work 24/7 at home without holidays, and still hold it together emotionally for the sake of their family.


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22 Apr 2024, 4:31 pm

My father(born 1940) was schizophrenic. He had a reputation for being long-winded and would engage in incoherent rants while beating my ass. I'm not in the habit of handing out ass-whippings, but phrases like "in a nutshell" and "long story, short" don't resonate with me.

My mother couldn't seem to keep friends and was very rigid in her thinking. Ironically, she seemed obsessed with appearing normal and being liked. That, unfortunately, was extended to her son(me), which means that my "odd" behavior and lack of anything resembling social skills were not well tolerated.

Lots of other weirdness in my family tree. :-?


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carlos55
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23 Apr 2024, 12:15 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
This is the difference v disability debate.

Lots of NTs including family relatives may display autistic like traits or BAP (broad autism phenotype) but they are not to the level of autism or where it is a serious problem impacting independent life or employment prospects, this is particularly true for male relatives and less so for female ones as traditionally less expectations were placed on them.



The video was about neurodivergent people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but BAP isn't classified as neurodivergent because people with BAP don't have a neurodevelopmental disorder in the same way that an autistic person does.

If someone does have BAP I assume you're right, that it's not to the same level as autism. That's it's very nature. That's not to say that my relatives or the people described in this video would be classed as BAP. I can't go back in time and diagnose my late relatives but they do meet the current criteria for ASD in my opinion, and they also match the characteristics described in this video.

Sure, some people past, present, or future might be BAP but that's not what this video was about.

Could you please elaborate on what you mean about women? Why were there "traditionally less expectations" placed on them compared to men? In my opinion men were a little more free to be socially awkward or reserved, introverted hard-workers who focused intensely on personal skills and interests rather than personal communication or the expression of emotions. Traditionally, women had to be social butterflies, smile and make pretty, wear bras and hosiery not to mention high heels, douse themselves in fragrances or cosmetics, work 24/7 at home without holidays, and still hold it together emotionally for the sake of their family.


Historically women just had to look pretty for men and be married off for children. It was expected that they wouldn't be well educated or appear intelligent or worldly about things.

This is still the case in many parts of the world i.e The Middle East being a prime example, the Taliban treatment of women generally mirrors life for women 150+years ago.

There was a history program on tv a few years back that showed it legal just a few hundred years ago for a husband to put a rope round his wife in public and attach something to her mouth to stop her talking if she got annoying to him.

Then we have some autistic traits like shyness which is still considered in women a virtue in some cultures.

So yes not much was expected from females if they had autism no one really noticed much or cared for the milder invisible symptoms.

Today in the west that has changed for the better, however other autistic traits - Anxiety, shyness, meekness & neuroticism are still all traits considered acceptable in women but frowned upon in men by NT men and women.

I`m not being sexist or claiming women dont have hard autistic symptoms just giving a short history lesson

This makes it historically harder for men to mask. Many such men would have been distrusted labelled feeble minded in the Victorian era and used for just simple tasks.

It makes it difficult to believe such undiagnosed people would have got to where they were in career or even allowed to marry back then.


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MatchboxVagabond
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24 Apr 2024, 8:19 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I'm an older Gen X and it all applies to me, but I'm already diagnosed.
I also knew there was a strong likelihood of neurodiversity in my family tree.
Now I see it in all of my elders.
I can't think of anyone other than some cousins who wouldn't have been ND.

I've had to reevaluate my views on my grandmother after realizing that she was probably undiagnosed autistic. She was a pretty bad person by today's standards, but some of it, like hitting the kids, was accepted in the '50s, but other bits do look like they were autistic traits and she might well have been a much better person had she been allowed to know what was going on in her brain. I'm just now realizing that there were times when she was doing the same smiling and nodding that I do on occasion. I just didn't pick up on it because I suck at facial recognition.