Do you think we should have our own country?

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Our differences are hardwired and neurological, this site isn't called "wrong planet" for nothing. Thinking that we could sustainably get along with the NTs in the long term and large scale is only a result of naivety and ignorance of how fundamentally different our ways of processing information and it's behavioral reflections are.

There seems to be ignorance on both sides, your average segregatist is probably just bitter and doesn't know anything more about neurology than you guys do but coincidentally their favoring of segregation also happens to be the only rational way to deal with the Neurotypicals.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - any subgroup that is not baseline (outside the middle 95% on one or more significant measures) - should attempt to clade off from humanity. For no other reason than that it's cool to have a multitude of human subraces.

Speaking on a more serious note, I don't think Autists need their own sovereign nation-state, but Autist communities are a good idea. Even merely semi-permanent retreats would be good.

By that logic the 'us and them mentality' of any country should get you down.

The purpose of Aspergia wouldn't be segregate ourselves from NT's (its not going to be like some kind of autistic North Korea where we cut off the world)

The purpose is just to have a single solitary stinking place where we aren't a minority! Is that too much to ask? I dont want to cut off NT interaction but what I do want is the choice to live in a country where autistic values and autistic thought processes take precedence.

A much better solution would be building communities -- within the nations that we are already a part of.

This would work out much better for us - and would require massively less effort to get started and we would not have to wall ourselves off from our families and friends so completely. In that communities could be much smaller and still be viable - this also minimizes the need to run some state functions such as courts, police, military would be nearly eliminated - as we could lean external structure for these functions.

Building an new country requires a great deal of overhead that effort should be put to use on supplying stability and support for our own.

Magneto,

I think you're on the right track with wanting to acquire land first. Everything is easier with a fixed location, it creates "facts on the ground" which is exactly what such a project would need.

I think true soveigntry is a word that should be avoided in this discussion. Any foreseeable set of events that would lead to such an outcome in the foreseeable future....would pretty much destroy the chances of founding an aspie "nation-state" in the first place.

If it's a phyiscal community that you're after, we have several examples. Disney, aka Reedy Creek Improvement District (now Lake Bueau Vista, Florida) was the result of very unique forces and circumstances that are unlikely to be repeated anytime in the near future. The best current example is Arcosanti, outside of Cortes Junction, AZ. It's been under construction for 42 years, and most of it's construction happened in the first 7 years of it's existance.

Arcosanti, much like a hypothetical early-stage Aspergian community, is based on a fairly frugal lifestyle, is designed to be people-centric in it's daily activities, and is self-supported by the production of crafts (bells and books), along with a decent amount of tourism. I've been there, and it's not someplace you just wonder into. Depending on the source of the numbers, the on-site community ranges from 60-130 people at any given time.

Is an Aspergian community a short-term possibility? I would say "yes". The main reason is the global drop in (inflation-adjusted) rural real estate prices, as well as the decreased cost of the materials and services required to put such a concept into existance. Magneto's numbers above represent a rough first-stage cost calculation, and Inventor (among others) has gone into more detail with the calculation of possible price points and concepts.

An "Aspie Building" concept is even more possible in the short-run, but that is a concept for another post.

I would live in such a place but I'm sorry, your example in north America is a bit insane if you weren't being tongue in cheek.

I'm not sure I'm following your post, do you mean the examples from North America are "a bit insane" or do you mean setting up an Aspie community in North America is not acceptable?

For discussion purposes, I'll assume that you meant that the main example that I cited, Arcosanti, has issues. I admit that I would prefer an example that had a faster start-up time, and was more extensive. I looked for examples, and none of them were on point. While the relevant Form 990 Tax Filings are available only on request, Arcosanti represents the closest example to what we are discussing, which is a fairly distinct community that is at least financially independent. In my experence, the point of an example is to learn from, and that means to take the good and bad.

In general, North America is far more dispersed than the United Kingdom, and transportation costs are a much larger impact to the calcuation. I don't think that in of itself rules out an Aspie Community, but does force some early decisions to reduce the transportion cost issue.

I think it would be nice to have communities where being on the autism spectrum is seen as the default mode of being. It wouldn't necessarily have to be segregational. I live in Auckland, and the culture here doesn't actively exclude me. I am not cut off from society. But it would be cool if there was somewhere I could go where I wouldn't be seen as awkward, where my autistic tendencies wouldn't be questioned or seen as curious.

Here, neurotypical people wouldn't be excluded at all-the society and culture would just be autistic-friendly. Making a place positive for autistic people doesn't entail excluding neurotypical people. It would mostly mean things like BANNING ALL TEAMBUILDING GAMES FROM ALL AREAS OF SOCIETY FOREVER AND EVER. (I hate hate hate hate teambuilding so so much).

I'm not sure how I feel about an entire country, but perhaps if there were small cities that were run by autistic people it would be a cool idea.

I'm seeing a thread of agreement among several posters, the feeling that a community, even a small "resort", would create someplace with"the choice to live in a <place> where autistic values and autistic thought processes take precedence." (Thank you Thomas81).

A country, with all of the implications of Sovereignty and all of the issues that go with it, is really beyond the scope of discussion at this point. A simple phyiscal place where "autistic thought processes take precedence" actually seems to be a realizable goal. By the very nature of economies of scale, it will be much easier to create other cultural institutions in such a location.

While we might make more of a big deal for advertising and news stories (Tune in at 11 to see "Aspie Community" celebrate Alan Turing Day!), it's not like life in an Aspie community would be that different. People will still wake up, still walk outside, still eat their prefered meals, and go to sleep. Would some things be laid out differently, yes. For instance, I'm fairly confident that local noise limits will be strictly enforced, and I'd think some types of strobe lighting would be prohibited outdoors. That's not that different than your average city or town in the US or UK.

Whoops! Sorry, I meant the guy who started the thread. Whenever people talk about appropriating land for a specific group even though it's already occupied by people outside that group you're just begging for another Israel/Palestine situation. I think if Aspies and Auties could legally purchase a huge tract of land, even if it was inhospitable at the time and made viable to live on, that would be a whole other option and I'd be open to moving there. I doubt the nation state in which the purchased land resides would entertain any notions of autonomy though. You'd still be citizens of that country subject to its laws and just be an alternative community like a permaculture commune.

Well, I wouldn't discount the possibility of city-level autonomy...

Call me President, of the Aspian Union.

Can i keep my family and friends tho?

I would not give up my passport.

Even a small village has a relationship with the County, State, National Government, that people do not. There is money in government, a system of kickbacks.

As I mentioned on another thread, Sales Tax collection, gives a lot more status than voting. Several hundred votes in a rural county, is enough to change election outcome.

Also, many depend on government support, SS, SSI, food stamps, Medicare, and I would not block that.

When Homeland Security has grants for spying on your neighbor, a willingness to supply tanks and larger and automatic weapons to local government, I want to be on that mailing list.

It also shows up as grants for sewer, water, streets, which are not free, and always in need of upgrade and repair.

Government, even the smallest, get first pick of Federal and State Surplus. Then come the non profits, then the public. Things often seen, big commercial stoves, ovens, dishwashing machines, enought to set up to feed hundreds. I have seen prefab jet hangers, which cost hundreds of thousands, sell for hundreds of dollars.

While I do look forward to the natural demise of the State, I am not holding my breath.

I thought buy now the Dangers of Democracy would be known, half the people elect a few people who run up debts that cannot be paid. Those who object are called terrorists. This is based on benefits for many, to get elected, and gifts to the few, reduced taxes, that brings in pre election money.

People who could not make a living running a gas station, now are pledging all local income for twenty years to Goldman Sachs for a Bond Issue, to build the Tractor Hall of Fame, which they claim will bring in tourists, national hotel chains, and increased tax income.

Contractors bid a new water line at $20,000 a foot, and three bids come in close to that amount. There are people who do nothing but bid small jobs that are larger than local companies can bid. Some money under the table, and that $1,000 a foot job gets contracted for $20.000.

Maybe half comes from local funds, the rest from State and Federal Grants.

Then there is The Public Employee Retirement System, which has solid gold toilets. Two terms as Mayor, one term in Federal Prison, but they still get the Pension for life.

Set up a jet hanger, a couple of fire trucks, and you are set for life.

I do not want out, I want to milk this system.

I would not buy votes, that is illegal, I just want the Proxie to vote on behalf of the Stockholders.

There is something good about Corporate Capitalism, It sets goals, forms plans, and reaches goals.

It is not that I do not care about,(....insert a million vauge social goals...), I am paid to not care, do one thing, and do it well.

I live in a world of the uneducated, those who seem uneducatable, and the corupt. I still have to get my job done.

Narrow focus, excess study of subjects of interest, Persistance, The Aspie Way.

Goals come from Vision, to gather resources, and place them in order somewhere in the future, where they form a set that has a good interaction with said future.

Hostess looked at past performance, and failed, Steve Jobs watched Star Trek, and said, lets build that data pad.

There is a difference in thought and perception worth gathering.

If we went for my artificial island idea, then we could have biodomes with different climate in each, or we could do as MrPickles is suggesting, so Magneto can live in Canada, and thomas81 can live in Spain. We could keep the contact trough internet. If Silicon Valley is willing, we could use it as capital, and maybe get founding to.




This sound like a good idea, and if we need to trade with the outside world, then we only need to use our intelligence. I mean, just imagine what we can achieve together within technology(just look at Silicon Valley)



I propose that we decide things trough public debates where anyone can come with suggestions.

The main reason that I like this idea, no matter if we are in Spain or Canada or if we are a spread community, is because of everything we would be able to accomplish. We could shut up Autism Speaks, shut down the Judge Rotenberg Center and stop the anti-vaccine movement. And who knows, we could maybe even try to solve all the problems that neurotypical nations creates for each other.

Do you think people on the spectrum should have there own country?
Shall it not stand "Do you think people on the spectrum should have their own country?"

Then we already disagree. Bringing up everything for debate, does not have a process for doing the things that need to be done.

Aspies, rule following people, who want to know there is a fixed structure to all things. Constant change is not something we do well.

As for wasting effort on becoming Activists, for objecting to Vaccines, Autism Speaks, it is not even Political.

A sound structure, you can read the Bylaws before joining, and keeping the focus within the group, where we do deal with outsiders, but as little as possible, and in a structured setting with a plain and clear reason.

The reasons Aspies might be worth having, They look within, the Aut in Autism. They are also bookish and persistant, and have a proven differance of thought and perception, that does not involve Magical Thinking. Do not be insulted, the world takes you as reality based, just another view of the same reality.

So in a world of NT and worse, where can I get a Second Opinion?

As for Autism Speaks, they ranked high on my customer list. Sometimes I support them, sometimes I mug them, but they are the big player in the market. They have done everything they could think of at great cost, and they could use a Second Opinion. Not one with crayon signs on cardboard, calling for attacks on Autism Walks, but dealing with the reality, also shared, of 1% of the population who just do not fit in.

One proposal was for Group Homes, and not that most do not need or want that, but it is too expensive to make happen. Some answer is needed, we know we run from back ward forever, to group home, and not much can be changed, but then there are Aspies, allowed out on their own, who truely live between two worlds, with their home planet being web based.

This is the largest group, who are part way there. Studied, they make less than their education and IQ would suggest, and they do hit some high function, above all people, but are generally unable to get the rewards that come with that.

I think they could live well in another social structure.

On one side it would have a clear structure, The role of the person defined, A simple checklist on the inside of their door,

Brush Teeth, Take Shower, Wear clean clothes, do not speak about the lives of Vampire Bats at dinner.

I think rural, quite, local food production, and woods to walk in.

Within the group some things are for all, maintaining life support, some are private group activities, The Church of Star Wars, and some are personal, for I do need time and space to perfect Tesla's Death Ray, and Time Travel.

Economics has died, what is left is food production, and services. Web based services have a good future. Food production, is work, which will keep you healthy, and well fed.

The easy way to wealth is keep a low overhead. A 7,000 Sq Ft house in Florida was a bad choice. Our fairly recent ancestors thought two rooms was living high. Chose a life you can own, or it owns you.

Cover the basics, shelter, food, water, power, clothes, WiFi, and then everything else you have can be applied to World Conquest.

Median household wealth is $50,000. That is the middle, but the bottom third starts with a minus. Just maintaining a Positive Net Worth is winning. The future looks less wealthy.

Economics comes before and after survival. Deal with it one step at a time.

I mean that a debate is a good idea in case someone know something important regarding the issue or sees a solution that others haven't thought about.

We could have a fixed government consisting of reasons Aspies that is good at and interested in politics, economi, welfare and so on.

I like the idea about a clear structure with defined roles. I would also like suggestions about what the roles should be.

Interesting thoughts, Inventor

Do you think people on the spectrum should have there own country?
Shall it not stand "Do you think people on the spectrum should have their own country?"