Beyond Pride Vs. (X,Y,Z) Advocacy

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When you can't actually say admit that you are wrong, call everyone who is attacking you deranged!



And how would you actually prove that saying that we don't have balls doesn't mean that you are belittling us?

Stand behind what you say and be prepared to compromise as I have with the diversity that comprises the minds of those whom speak about. You can belittle myself and seek to destroy progress simply because I think differently then you and attempt to force me to agree with you or else like others have experienced being attacked by the related types of advocates or simply realize the perspective has hit a brick wall. I respect others personal beliefs 100% but no personal belief has any right to remove my or others rights to believe freely in how we choose.

Quit thinking your movement is your petty ego.
You don't respectr other's beliefs. You call them names for diagreeing with you and then accuse them of various things.

Don't you see that's what you do and you would have my mouthed taped not to defend myself against ill constructiveness. Be constructively civil and then you can be taken seriously in your views. Until then it seems more like hating someone you disagree with in order to harm other efforts. Ego is needed for confidence and a subtraction from mine in order to demean it seems utterly clear. It's quite pathological your attempts to bully the efforts I've spent 5 years constructing and succeeding at. You just cannot relate because your rather included yourself and not even diagnosed!

Someone like you that tries to fit into autism socially to go up against progresses in society seems like nothing less then a traitor.

ci - I tend to agree with Gedrene.

Once again, as stated repeatedly in other threads, your discrimination against those of us who are not formally diagnosed is disgusting. Stop behaving in this offensive manner.

Disagreeing with you is not the same as undermining your project, or slowing autie progress, or hating people with autism, or any of the other ridiculous claims you have made.

Disagreeing with you is honorable and an obligation for those of us who love the truth.

Quit trying to bring the kitchen sink into every discussion that you find challenges you and man up, instead. Listen to what people suggest or ask, think about it, and behave like a man should behave, not like a spoiled child.

As for your charge that Gedrene is a traitor, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

As far as I can tell, Gedrene has furthered the interests of the autistic community far more than you have.

You owe everyone a sincere apology.

Yes, and in half a decade all you did was choose the scents. No amount of ego is needed to do anything. Fortitude is not arrogance. I hope you remember the difference between those words because between them is the fine line that divides me from you. What's pathological is the lie that you somehow don't care about what we say despite the fact that you never stop responding, trying to have the last word because you know very well that the last word is all you have left.

People not diagnosed like yourself have no room to attempt to dictate the progresses of others whom are officially diagnosed and the confirmed minority. Again you have no credibility in our rights nor progresses. The sooner you realize this the better.

You simply just don't know what your talking about. Not one bit. Not only can someone on SSI not afford to purchase huge quantities of the same oils from the same sources as master distributors get them from but it takes time to do so and to pick the most likely ones to succeed. Not only that but the new formals of the same fragrances testing compatibility with materials that might not transpire for 1 week to 6 months after application. You have used other disagreements to go up against, belittle and dis-promote an otherwise successful efforts and your not even diagnosed yet think you ought to have the same say in my and others rights who are not included when indeed you are. Somehow the likes of you will get a total attitude adjustment and I'm waiting for you to go on public record so I can help it happen.

Nonsense, you hateful creature.

I suspect that your response will come back to haunt you.

Official diagnosis is often unnecessary, sometimes not advised, and has nothing to do with whether one actually has autism or Asperger's.

How are we to know that you didn't go doctor-shopping until you found one who would give you a diagnosis?

Stuff it.

Ci I think you should take a break from posting before you alienate the entire community.

I think you have forgotten that the aspie political movement is an extremely small amount of people compared to the greater majority of individuals with autism who typically are kind or simply not involved in the messes of online advocates that at times spill offline. Again no individuals with autism or other individuals with disabilities I've seen around me is nearly as fanatical or anti-Establish-mental and out right reverse discriminating intending then some of the advocates online which the public at times confuses myself and others for as if we are like them. I'd like to think that people ought to get along in good positive inclusive efforts but the madness of some of these politics which entirely alter world-views such as the them vs. us nonesense does not like it one bit. After-all if N.T's are nice and helpful as what I've experienced and project in advocacy then it can be threatening to some beliefs.

Again with regards to the people not diagnosed and who have inclusive achievements the efforts your attacking for my disagreeing with you on some others issues you hold dear are not about you, for you and your hatred toward it for it's audacity and success simply proves autism advocacy should be divided for certain need based groups.

Ci
My goal is a world where Aspies live in dignity in employment and have equal opportunities for happy and productive lives.

This includes not being dependant upon charity or state handouts.

Your activities encourage a perpetuation of this.

You claim you run a multi-million dollar business. If it were the perfect and ideal world your theory which I've also uttered to others behind the scenes quite similarly to your own is not 100% reasonable without compromise. Others with autism do think they need compassionate understanding and help and that does not make them bad people. I've developed my version of a compromise with an inclusion model in PR to get people into the door none-the-less. There is no reason for a great deal of the dependency that exists in today world but more reason to strive for results far beyond the previous achievements of special interest groups who are the ones whom should be including. It's not as cut and dry as you or I would like it but none the less something a bit more inciting to those kinds of goals ought to step forward and try just as I have. If individuals that are diagnosed similarly but more abled and other times not even diagnosed go up against efforts for inclusion that seek just those same goals with whatever resources can be derived but with better models then the risk is isolation, exclusion and the perpetuation of unequal inclusion of those whom are excluded. In 5 years I have built up the awareness of my efforts which has reached presidents of some popular organizations in other areas, media and well outside of the area where I've seen others in forum groups share the news awareness about the company.

You cannot simply have your entire way on the issue but you have then three choices. Seek to destroy compassionate terms of inclusion when individuals need that understand, work with compassionate models to better innovate or simply ignore it as if it will fail. One choice seeks destruction without compromise, the other compromises for better results and the third much worse which is indifference which helps no one.

People who do need compassionate terms to become included least at first ought to have dignity as well.

The website here is for neurotypicals, undiagnosed autistics, diagnosed autistics, and those with other unrelated disorders; all their opinions are welcome. Probably the least represented group are the majority of Autistic people that number 80% of those with Classic Autism that are not measured as having normal and above IQ levels; this of course is not to suggest that they don't have intelligence that is not measured by this tool.

I too believe that you have a noble goal here for people with Aspergers. However for those that are more profoundly disabled by the condition, the opportunities that service organizations provide accommodate the needs of some others, enabling them to become part of the working world.

While candle making and janitorial work, may not meet the employment goals of some, there are disabled people that take great pride in the fact that they are able to go out in the working world and be part of it.

A number of disabled autistic people were employed in a service that only employed disabled individuals, that provided janitorial services for a military installation where I worked, and they were as proud and happy to be employed in their jobs as the Captain of the base.

You can bet that many of these disabled people that are employed in making candles are proud and happy to have an opportunity to be part of the working world. For some that are more profoundly disabled, these type of opportunities would not exist, if people did not create them specifically for disabled people.

A college degree is no guarantee of a job at McDonalds in the US. Finding work is hard for those that are blessed with the highest abilities found within the population.

The goal you have and the goal that the candle making organization have meet the needs of those that can help themselves and those that do require help from others to make it in life. Both goals are noble ones.

I think Ci's argument here is to bring to light that not all Autistic people can support themselves within the community without specific efforts in the Community that provide the opportunities.

He feels like some advocacy organizations don't understand that these people are not disabled by society but by the disabling symptoms that some experience with Autism. Society does not stand in the way of these individual's progress in life, they enable it through programs that allow them to become part of the working world.

If I didn't see the look of pride on those individuals that worked in the janitorial service on the military installation, one might be able to convince me that it somehow demeaning to offer these type of menial jobs to the disabled.

Janitorial work and sanitation in general has saved more lives than any other profession in the history of the world. It might not be the best of jobs for all, but it is meaningful work in the results it achieves for better health for all people.

The difference here is while some people with Autism feel like society holds them back, which it can where there is discrimination based on disability, there are others more profoundly disabled who are enabled by society, that would not have an opportunity to work, if it was not for specific efforts from society to provide that opportunity.

It doesn't match the ideology of neurodiversity because neurodiversity suggests that society disables the neurodiverse, not the condition they were born with.

While this may be true for some individuals that are considered neurodiverse, it does not apply in regard to those that are inherently disabled by their disability, including some with Autism who are more profoundly disabled by the symptoms.

It seems fairly simple, different needs for different individuals that should be accepted by all. A move toward more rights in the workplace for those that have the ability to seek their own employment and the enabling of those to work that are not in a position to seek their own employment seems like a reasonable solution in the discussion here.

Different advocacy solutions to meet the needs of different people.

Organizations like ASAN and Autism Speaks don't provide these kind of opportunities, but they advocate for them and provide information for people on where to find them. It is the government and the private sector whom we must rely on to provide greater rights in the workplace for those that seek them, and the enabling of others by providing specific job opportunities for those more profoundly disabled individuals.

Sorry mate
" unequal inclusion of those whom are excluded"?

I have no idea what you are on about; have you been licking windows again?

You have an attitude that tried to sway a side in your direction by demeaning. It's very little different then high school. I learned allot in another kind of school. It's not all about me, it's not all about how my male instincts might oblige it and its not always about what I think is best but what others choose. It's you that however not only licked some windows but ought to find a mirror instead when asking for dignity for yourself when your so intolerant of the compassion needed for others attempts at equality you simply act akin to the wicked ole witch melting in the rain in sight of compassionate premises.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlrevzHEUgE[/youtube]