Whats with all the Autism Speaks hate.

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I'm in no way a part of that group. I lack all kinds of abilities and miss out on many basic things as a result. Whatever knowledge I have, is due to lots of work over a long time. I didn't come across anything easily.

-Well no one is telling you not to get a cure, if you want one and they find one go for it....so you sure this group exists. Or you just think if someone does not want a cure attempted on them it means they are successful and want to stop other people from getting cures attempted on them against their will.
-What reality, huh.......don't see what you mean I know that is what money is used for, but isn't it logical if some people have trouble meeting financial needs there should be help for those people in a society?
-I am not protecting anyone nor am I successful and no I doubt its possible for everyone to be completely self sufficient with no help from anyone else, if that was the case people wouldn't attempt to build societies or function in them.

You should quit accusing people of things and acting all holier than thou towards anyone who disagrees with your opinion.

Are you aware that there is an unorganized fringe element out there trying to convince others that cure isn't necessary and is bad, with autistics, their parents, and others in society, as their target audiences, while also trying to halt and gut biomedical research into cure, which is absolutely necessary to make cure possible? One cannot choose to get a cure that has been prevented from existing. The ones who oppose cure tend to be successful, and sometimes even cite their intelligence as reasons not to be cured.


What should that help be? Why not bring them the resources they need in order to convert their own work into financial gain, which would let them meet their own financial needs? They are willing and eager to work/contribute, and with the necessary resources, can thrive. Those resources may be neurological in content.

You're supporting their ideas. Trade/exchange based on specialization isn't the same as dependence. The idea is that individuals exchange equivalent amounts of things that are made. But some individuals have difficulty in attaining productivity in general.


Consider your own advice.

No, we ALL have disadvantages. Nobody's f*****g super man. Yes, advantages ARE in the eye of the beholder, just like everything else. What you perceive as an advantage might feel like a disadvantage or burden to the one who has it. Dude, seriously? You're gonna accuse me of trying to defend the elite? You must be deluded or something. And while we're on that subject, if anything, the elite would want a group like us to be eliminated. Why? Because we tend to think more for ourselves rather than just go along with the group, and the elite doesn't want that. The elite sees independent and critical thinkers as a threat to their positions of power. So if you're supporting this "cure" nonsense, I could say you're defending the elite. But I wouldn't actually propose that. I think you're just slightly misguided/naive.

I never said we were moral deviants, psychos, or junkies. What I'm saying is as an organization that tries to appear like it cares about people with autism, rather than focusing on how to "cure" us, they should be focusing on helping us integrate into society... By stopping the promotion of this idea that we're lesser people who are just a burden on everyone else that needs "cured" or gotten rid of. We're just different. And different is nothing to be ashamed of. it makes the world much more interesting. If it's called autism speaks, shouldn't they have some people on the spectrum speak? Where's our perspective being represented by them?

They might not necessarily mean abortions will take place, but people have done it for other things like down's syndrome. Whether or not autism speaks directly supports that or not, if they're trying to advance ways of prenatal screening, they're contributing to that problem.

The problem here is you view autism as a disease. It's not. Disease is caused by pathogens. You didn't get infected with a virus that gave you autism. You were born with it. If a cure was possible, it would make you not yourself anymore. You can't just get rid of the impairments no matter how badly you want to. You can learn ways to cope with them, but you can't completely eliminate them without physically altering your brain.

if not you then who is.your very inteligent and you argue well and you understand this complex website.

how are you not on the high functioning end of the spectrum.im not trivializing your disability,im very high functioning but severly impaired as well.its not always easy being mild on the spectrum especialy when i was a kid.

What disadvantages? What makes the elites so unhappy? If they're so troubled, why do they so stubbornly want to hold onto their privileges?

No, they aren't in the eye of the beholder. You can't compare all things to each other like that. This isn't some weird alternate reality with "super-mans" having some advantage. This is the real reality that we live in, in which some live way better than others due to disproportionate access to and benefit from necessary resources, in which all of the resources and actions occurring presuppose laws of nature.


Intelligence isn't a disadvantage to anyone.


Yes. You're defending the status quo. You don't want deep disparities in ability to be rectified, not even in regards to basic abilities needed for life skills. I consider the elite to include those who are intellectually "gifted" Us? Who is us? I'm not part of your small group of super-smart persons. We're not all part of some large happy group who get along. There is deep stratification within the spectrum in regards to functioning. Nobody is out there in a frenzy to eliminate us. Enough with that paranoia. You say that to scare others into obeying your restrictive and unfair positions.


You aren't thinking for yourself. You're just repeating and propagating the same facile and absurd ideas started by some fringe anti-cure group years ago. What you say doesn't stand up to criticism, while your side portrays their views and goals as representative of and beneficial for the entire spectrum. No critical thinking needed or even permitted to follow the "diversity" obsession. That kind of vague diversity rhetoric comes from excessive individualism, and individualism is another idea the elite obsessively love.


Integrate into society how? There's only so much that can be done without biologically relevant technology. Maybe some of us don't want to be permanently limited to going through the motions of the special ed system, then of job coaches, sheltered workshops, etc, all while dealing with government bureaucrats. And some of us deal with this while some "lucky" autistics get to excel in college and then in careers, getting to do the things they choose without someone else holding their hand. Disability isn't a neutral difference. It is a misfortune. John Elder Robison is on Autism Speaks' Scientific Advisory Board. 3 self-advocates are public members of the IACC. But you would be satisfied if only very high-functioning voices were representing the entire spectrum in organizations. It would be great if there were autistics involved at Autism Speaks who looked out for the interests of the spectrum as a whole.


I think the abortion threat is overblown. Not all pregnancies even undergo tests for genetic anomalies. Who knows what percentage of pregnancies have such tests.


How do we even define autism. It has been shown that the exact causes and neurological basis of autism is different for different autistics, which is related to the differing subtypes of autism. The parts of autism of the successful high-functioning is obviously benefiting them very well, as they grew to have basic abilities and vast academic and career success, a reality they even chose to admit and boast to many others. But the way things are now, those gifts, talents, potential, or whatever, are not shared as a resource/benefit among all autistics. The large majority of the spectrum is deprived of many abilities they need and want.

This isn't personal. This isn't identity. Identity isn't a nice thing if it's based on hoarding massive amounts of resources away from others, for one's own benefit. Suffering and deprivation aren't redeeming or uplifting. If curing impairments gets rid of one's self, then why does one's self want to do things that impairments prevent it from doing? Why does the self think that impairments are repugnant? Science and technology are very advanced now, and will only advance further as time goes on, so impairment can be abolished, which will include enhancing the brain. The brain isn't a static mechanism. It is constantly going through fluctuations and transformations. Don't make modification seem like something scary. This deprivation, humiliation, and inequity, is nothing to be coped with.

I don't know. I don't really function that well. I mess up all kinds of tasks/errands in ways I seldom can predict, even if I get them done sometimes. I get confused a lot, and much of this is due to executive functioning and concentration problems. I've had language/speech problems in early childhood, which still persist somewhat for me now. I have to think out what I want to say a lot. My IQ is only 107, and my nonverbal IQ is only 91. I'm very impaired in visual/spatial/motor skills, and can't even drive. I was tested many times, and was in special ed in 1st and 2nd grade. I had remedial reading for a couple of years, and still am a very slow reader with comprehension problems. I didn't do that well in college and was only in a tier3 one. A lot of the stuff I know is the result of years of looking things up and straining to read and understand things.

When I talk of the high-functioning, I'm referring to these super-high functioning all around successful individuals, who had such an easy time learning and doing things. The things I've done have been through the sweat of my brow.

I cannot agree with you. My experience and observation has been that our strengths and talents are often inextricably tied to our impairments or weaknesses. I like who I am, flaws and all, autistic traits and all. It's taken me a long time to get to the place where I am OK with myself and I hope that in time, you also will experience self acceptance.

It would be such an incredibly boring world if everyone were perfect and homogenous, with no impairments or flaws. No lefties, no very short or very tall people, nobody with dyslexia, etc.... I hope I never have to live in such a world.

I am trying to think of one person on the spectrum that I know of who has all this. The only one I can think of just passed away, and I suspect that she did not have "guaranteed basic life skills"...and I have no idea what her social life was like. Temple Grandin had to fight and work for where she is by the sweat of her brow...it did not just happen easily for her...also she has no partner, sex life, etc so she also wouldn't qualify.

After some serious thought, I am forced to conclude that the aspies/HFAs that I know who have attained the things you mention have gotten there by working very hard, by really applying themselves. They deserve what they have. I am very high functioning and I don't have most of those things...I am not even sure that my IQ qualifies as being "super high", but at any rate, I need that IQ in order to be able to cope with the other challenges.

Realistically, how many neurotypical people have all those things you listed? Most don't. You have put yourself in a position of victimhood. Being "cured" would in no way guarantee any of those things, except possibly the "guaranteed" life skills, which again, many normal people do not have, at least not for their entire lives.

The conclusions of your observations just aren't true. Lots of individuals have vast strengths while not having weaknesses in other things. So it's not like all individuals get some special talent to compensate for a particular weakness they may have. I'll never accept this misfortune I have to deal with. I loathe my impairments to the core. I will be against unfairness until the end of my days. I like the idea of "perfection", or of tending towards it, in which all could share in the prosperity they create through their own efforts and ideas. With nobody getting a disproportionate amount of benefits/success, so competition would cease to be needed. Nobody rising above others, nobody to obey, no need for begging, no inequality. Complete liberation.

Lots of these very high-functioning individuals, including some of the self-advocates, talk of their experiences in which they "pass" to others they interact with because they can sufficiently perform various tasks, including social interaction, while also being successful, and they mention that others wouldn't know they're autistic.


When someone has a really high IQ, is hyperlexic, has photographic memory, etc., there is a lot less exertion involved in learning things and getting knowledge. Things come easier to them. Listen to what they say of their abilities and the advantages of them. This isn't just what I'm saying of them. Of course, listen to the self-descriptions they tell others, only when they're not trying to confront and refute vibes that recognize them as privileged and advantaged compared to others.


Those things being lacking in many neurotypicals isn't fair either. They shouldn't have to put up with it either. That is the goal of cure. To guarantee access to the biological resources/means necessary to acquire such success.

OK well, I don't think 141 is "super high", but it's respectable..I also am hyperlexic and have a somewhat photographic memory. And, I often "pass".

I also ended up in the mental hospital, could not work a menial dishwashing job because I got massive anxiety attacks, have incredible difficulty with relationships and have struggled with suicidality for most of my adult life. I am impoverished because I cannot work, but because I am considered high functioning, I may not be able to get on disability...everyone thinks that a high IQ is the only component to job success (except for my employers!). I have a LOT of trouble with relationships and with coping with everyday life. My life skills are most emphatically not guaranteed. When I say impoverished, I mean no running water, no electricity, having to sleep in my car because I cannot afford the gas money to drive home, and having spent years of my life homeless. I do have advantages that normal people don't, and I have advantages that some ASD folks don't, but the advantages I have over the NTs are often not recognized or appreciated while the advantages that you say I have over many ASD people are still very insufficient in terms of executive functioning and being able to get by seamlessly in an NT world that is increasingly intolerant of asocial/eccentric people.

I guess I feel that you have constructed this unrealistic ideal that does not usually exist for anyone, NT or ASD.

You have a lot of aptitude.

If you can decrease your anxiety, what work could you do and learn to do? What is causing your difficulties in relationships?


I lack some necessities cause I can't handle work and really am not able to do even simple jobs. I make mistakes and am slow. It's too difficult for employers to deal with me.


I don't know what intolerance has to do with this. Eccentricity isn't relevant. I don't know who really is asocial. I'm just unable to socialize even in basic ways. That's why I avoid interaction with others. I can't have stable relationships for the same reason.


Unrealistic doesn't mean it doesn't occur for some. I have seen and heard of the experiences of the successful, so I know, that there are some who really are successful and well off, although it can be uncommon.

I don't believe in the perfect race. There will never be a perfect race and I hope that there never is a perfect race. Instead of striving for perfection, why don't we celebrate the different things that people bring to this world to make it more interesting.

I feel that all people have the right to be born, whether they have a disability or not, no matter what disability they have. Abortion is murder, whether an unborn baby has a disability or not. I feel that most NTs have taken perfection way to far in the 20th century already and this is only the 12th year into the 2000s. The right to life is the first basic right and without it, we all wouldn't be here. I support neurodiversity of all types, including autism and Down Syndrome. I love special needs people. I call them Sids after a certain children's character that I relate to. To abort special needs babies would be like murdering a bunch of special needs people standing in a line, under Hitler's orders.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being another Holocaust before this century is over, over issues like this.

Abortion is a reality of life among human beings, for most of recorded history. It is modern legal safe abortions that actually save lives instead of ending them. The facts are clear as close to half of the abortions performed worldwide are unsafe abortions, mostly in countries where abortion is illegal. The human cost is approximately 68,000 maternal deaths, and between 2 and 7 million cases of long term damage or disease from unsafe abortion. The legality of abortion does not change the reality of abortion. However the legality of safe medically approved abortion not only reduces death and suffering among women, but also among the unborn, where more civilized procedures are used.

So, for those that hope to kill the ability for women to have a choice to safe legal medically approved abortion, success in this endeavor per the facts that exist, would not end abortion, and would only increase the likely hood of maternal deaths, disease, disability, and additional suffering for the unborn. The only realistic potential to reduce abortion is to offer greater education, availability and access to affordable means of effective contraception. Health Care reform in the US, provides greater access to affordable health care as well as prenatal care and coverage for effective contraceptives. It is the most effective means of reducing the actual number of abortions in the US, currently being put into action.

Abortions both safe and unsafe are highest among those that have reduced economic means to gain subsistence for basic survival. It is not a decision that most women want to make, nor can the circumstances surrounding these decision be reasonably understood by those that haven't walked in these women's shoes global-wide, particularly among those in developing countries where having another child may be the difference between survival or not surviving for those that are currently living. If one is not in a position to have to make this type of decision they can consider themselves fortunate, as this is not an easy decision for most women to make, and one of survival for some. If one truly believes in humane living conditions for human beings, they can only hope that one day safe legally approved medical abortions will be accessible in developing countries, to end maternal death, and suffering of both women and the unborn.

Autism Speaks has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of abortion. The organization is not funding research for a prenatal test for autism, for those concerned that at some point women will be provided a more definitive prenatal test for Autism, to base a legal decision for selective abortion.

There is one organization in Australia and one organization in California funded by the government, both of which are in the second year of a five year study, researching the potential of prenatal tests for autism, for more effective screening for early intervention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion

Holocaust has no effective place in a discussion associated with legal abortion and a women's legal choice for a medically approved safe method of abortion, as unsafe abortion is already part of a silent world-wide pandemic of death, disability, disease and suffering. The unborn are killed in abortions, but they are not murdered where the procedure is legal, as murder is a legal term and abortion where legal is not an unlawful procedure.

Some women in countries where abortion is illegal not only face potential death, disability, and suffering of mothers and the unborn as a result of unsafe abortions, they also face the potential penalty associated with murder charges, if they are convicted of being involved in an illegal abortion.