Grrrr, vaccine ARE connected with autism. >.< That's a

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No it's not.

Why not? Don't you think the thousands of toxic chemicals our food is riddled with, and the multi-million dollar marketing campaigns to convince us they're safe is a bit scary? Don't you think the fact that the establishment set up to heal us makes trillions from us being sick is a bit scary? Isn't it a bit scary how the majority of the world's media is controlled by just a handful of people? Doesn't it scare you how a few big business are slowly but surely taking over all of the world's smaller companies, and changing them with their scanty ethics and questionable practises? How about the way in which they've convinced most of the western world that they're fine, yet they are slowly but surely destroying the world's resources and killiong millions in the process? Doesn't any of that scare you in the slightest? How about the way in which the environment is in such a state of crisis that we're getting increasing natural disasters, fewer and fewer rainforests, and rapidly diminishing biodiversity? Not scary? And other symptoms of this all, like bee colony collapse?

I think it's downright terrifying...

If I thought anything like that was scary, I would've gone crazy years ago and probably would've been institutionalized.

Heaven forbid...


I suppose ignorance is bliss huh?

As I said, the truth is never scary.

Being paranoid and espousing every conspiracy theory that comes along would probably feel quite frightening, I would imagine. I wouldn't know. I tend to look at the evidence.

Personally, I would rather assume that 99.99% of the human race was at worst somewhat selfish and as a result (game theory) will act fairly altruistically. The other 0.01% have no significant effect and are generally locked away. They are the cost of diversity, if you like.

The "handful of people that rule the world" don't actually exist.

Propaganda is scary.

No, I don't, because then I step back and realize that mankind has survived and flourished despite many, many horrible things. That doesn't mean I will turn a blind eye and not work to erradicate things that are causing harm in today's world: searching for and removing true threats are part of how mankind does continue to survive. But a certain level of bad stuff is simply a part of life, and often serves a positive purpose that we are currently unable to see. Mankind has often done itself a disservice in it's haste to control it's environment and human nature, and it is important to consider all the possible fall outs before "correcting" something that seems scary to us. There are many, many checks and balances that will bring the truly scary stuff to light and remove it. Even this debate is part of that. You and I are both playing roles that are important to the process. Long run, I believe in people, and I believe that the right thing will ultimately get done. You cannot eliminate everything that sounds scary, it simply isn't possible, so the focus has to go where the most real threats are, and on what can be solved. We get there eventually. Or none of us would still be here.

Interestingly enough, I do quite a bit of it. You might trying a little more comprehension of what you read.



As condescending as you would like to think that statement should have been. You missed the mark, because without reason, my dear LeKiwi, you're right, there is no reasoning with me.

Obviously, you are unaware of one of the good things of being me... I have this little genetic thing called Asperger's Syndrome and coolness of all coolness, I ain't afraid of the truth. In fact, I embrace it. I also suffer from the insufferable uncontrollable ability to only see things logically, you know, from a black and white standpoint, ergo, show me the truth, I would dearly love to embrace it... Unfortunately... you still have failed to do so. I will also point out one of the intensely frustrating things about me... I have near perfect retention of documents that I read, a disorder you fail to manifest.



LOL, oh, that's rich.

Is that odd little bit of misinformation supposed to make my point or yours?

See, if we were talking about the people with the agenda not publishing, then duh! That's a given. If we were talking about the people trying to counter the agenda not being published, then you failed to make the point. You were supposed to show how someone with valid information, such as the research agencies or anyone else for that matter, would go unpublished, as that was the point you were attempting to make. In attempting to prove it, you have done nothing other than to prove that the agency with the agenda is failing to release valid information.

So, at this juncture, seeing as how, you have no reason, therefore reasoning with me is impossible... Why did you ignore the balance of my post?

Who do you work for? Jenny McCarthy or Autism Speaks?

That's what I was trying to say - so much data goes unpublished that the public is continually misled and lied to, at the expense of all our health. It frustrates me no end. Obviously I've made that point. As I said, the reason for posting an article from the NYT about it is purely to show it from a mainstream perspective; there aren't many on here who would appear to be the sort to take on board anything published on other sites such as indymedia and similar, so I gave something you would perhaps be more inclined to listen to.

I'm not sure who Jenny McCarthy is, and as I'm not in the US I don't really know alot about Autism Speaks other than what I've read from you guys on here (I did visit the site once but found their forums somewhat illogical so gave up pretty quickly), so I can assure you I don't work for either. I work for a few entertainment magazines freelance, and work hard on my studies, primarily. I can only assume from that though that you think I would like a cure for it, or that I don't believe it's all caused by genetics etc - not true though. I don't want a cure for myself at all; I count this as a blessing rather than a curse. I just believe that people should have the freedom to get their cure if they want it, so I'm not totally against one being found and the research into it. I also don't believe it's all caused be genetics - sure, that's the primary cause for the vast majority, but I don't see how anyone can categorically state that genetics is the only cause of the syndrome. If there's not yet a known cause or an exact physiological state resulting from it, how can anyone really be sure? Surely there should also be research into that to find out whether it IS the cause for some susceptible individuals, so it can be avoided? Especially considering those all tend to be ones with various other problems, such as digestive ailments etc? So long as the main focus remains making life easier for those who do have it already, I see no problem with further investigating the potential environmental causes. The biggest thing lying in the way of that though is, as per usual, the pharmaceutical companies whose huge earners would be put at risk should something be found - that's the biggest challenge for the families who want that acknowledgement.

And I also 'suffer' the logic and retention of facts that accompany this blessed syndrome we've all in common.



DW - I see what you're saying, and to be honest I agree. I'm one of those eternally optimistic people and I do believe that we can overcome all the present trials and troubles to get through as a race... I just think about it too much sometimes, almost obsessively, and then I start to get down about it all and feel hopeless and it just spirals... I guess that's part of the AS though; that fixation on one thing for a period of time. I just need to step back and look at the bigger picture and just hope that enough people doing their small part to change things for the better in their own small way will create enough change to fix things... the 100th monkey etc.

Mercola is credible??? Did I read that right? He's in the same business as Andrew Wakefield and the Geiers. Quack personified! I wouldn't even waste the spit on his pathetic contributions!

For someone who insists they aren't into conspiracies, that last post from LeKiwi pretty much shot that claim to bits!

Err, have you ever read anything on his site? What exactly is quackery about fairly bog-standard nutritional advice and a blog consisting of links to articles on health/nutrition research as it comes out?

Then you don't understand at all, the fact that 46 different GENES have been implicated in this syndrome. Ergo you don't understand that it IS entirely genetic. AND you might as well be touting a cure, when you say such ridiculous things as "people should have the freedom to get their cure if they want it". You miss the all important point everyone here is trying to make that THERE AIN'T NO CURE. There isn't about to be one and the more money we waste on trying to find one, keeps research from being done on finding ways to ALLEVIATE the SYMPTOMS... which is the only way that any such "cure" exists.



That is solely because you don't understand the FACT that 46 different genes have been mapped proving that it's genetic.



Because frankly, as someone explained to me, when a number of genes work together in a certain way THAT is what causes the resulting physiological state. Not the single gene itself.



What you fail to comprehend and I don't know why, because it seems to me that everyone here is whacking you in the head with it repeatedly, is that the MAIN focus is NOT on making lives easier for those who have it, but rather on making lives easier for those who are the parents or family members of those who have it. PERIOD. The Pharmaceuticals are not in the way, LeKiwi, PEOPLE like you who perpetuate the ridiculous myth that there is a cure.

The challenge is NOT in acknowledging the "families", READ WHAT IS BEING SAID HERE! The challenge is in ACKNOWLEDGING the AUTISTIC.



Coulda fooled me.

Why shouldn't there be a focus on helping those family members who have to help the person deal with it daily too? Not everyone is lucky enough to be high functioning Aspergers and it can be incredibly difficult to family to help with and look after. Of couse the primary focus should be on helping the person affected, but you all seem to be of the mindset on here that the family don't need help either. Of course they do, and why should they be denied it? Why is that such a bad thing?

I'm not saying there IS a 'cure' because I simply don't know whether or not that's true, but I am saying that if people want to keep looking for one then why shouldn't they? You all seem so scared of the thought. Cure does not equal genocide and I highly doubt it would be forced on anyone either.

I don't quite understand you, Pepperfire - you seem to get so angry to the point of almost flaming any opinion that doesn't agree with yours. Differring opinion does not mean opinions and thoughts that can't go side by side and that have to clash so much, or that everyone with a different opinion than yours wants to kill all autistics or something, as you all seem so paranoid about...

What about all the Downs babies that have been murdered as fetuses?

That will happen with autism, and it may just be in this lifetime when it happens.

I guess so, though I still don't really see it happening as there are so many different levels of autism; with Downs it's generally a case of dealing with more or less the same thing (though of course there are exceptions). I don't see they'd be allowed to get away with it in the case of Autism as easily, purely because people not in the community could see the contributions made by HFAs and ASers to the world. I'm not saying those lower functioning on the spectrum haven't; of course, they have - but just that to an outsider with little experience of autism or anyone on the spectrum they'd be able to see it easier and probably (hopefully!) join the outcry there'd be. I don't agree with aborting a child because they're Downs, though I can understand it with harder to deal with disabilities. Call me a bigot or harsh or cruel or whatever, but I know a lot of parents and families and children with some pretty awful things to deal with - I'm not saying it's right or I agree with it, just that I can understand the decision.

Anyway, I'd be very surprised if it happened with autism unless there was another nazi uprising or something...

Correct, Beau. Le Kiwi clearly has no respect for the Autistic Spectrum culture. It's genocide - pure and simple.

Oh, you mean, the status quo of the 'culture' on these particular boards??

I'm ON that spectrum, I'll remind you, and so are a lot of my family...