Whats with all the Autism Speaks hate.

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Sid the Sloth

I am pro-choice, but anti-monoculture, whether it is a monoculture in terms of some GMO or hybrid corn variety, only one kind of chicken, or only one kind of person. Monocultures are toxic and unnatural. I don't think that a person has to be pro-life in order to be pro-diversity.

Most of my problems with work have been due to an overemphasis on quality, and being too honest. I'm not kidding. I don't especially want to be cured of being honest, nor do I want to become a fast and sloppy worker who doesn't follow the health code. There have been some sensory issues, but those weren't what got me fired/caused me to quit. Also, I am a perfectionist and so tend to spend more time on a task than an NT would, because I want to do it well.

The anxiety attacks are due to PTSD, from a traumatic childhood and life. The PTSD causes problems in relationships because I am phobic of being abandoned, I get triggered, freak, either get all clingy or withdraw from my partner, and need a LOT of reassurance. This scares many men away. I have found a very accepting, patient, compassionate partner now (very recently), but keep in mind, I am in my forties....all my other relationships have been disastrous. Also I have had a hard time picking partners who weren't abusive in some way because I couldn't read them or tell until it was too late.



Yeah. I understand. My goal is to make an organic farm and to hire other people on the spectrum to work there. If they stim, etc, whatever, fine. It won't be an aversive or sensorily assaulting place, being asocial would be fine, attention to detail would be phenomenal. I lack money though, so will either have to lease acreage or talk someone else into buying a farm and letting me work it.



Oh, workplaces tend to like sheeple. Social skills seem to matter more than work ethic. That is intolerance on the part of the workplace rather than a deficiency in you or I. If we do the job, why should it matter if we're weird, stim, or don't want to chatter inanely and endlessly?

Last edited by Chami on 14 Oct 2012, 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

People and culture are more Diverse and complex than ever before. Modern society provides accommodations for many to survive that otherwise would not likely see adulthood. There are about 50 million abortions each year and 7 Billion people. Some in the developed world, the culture of Japan as a prime example, have lost interest in reproducing, but there are plenty willing volunteers to continue on with the full diversity of the human species on all corners of the globe.

It is very possible that part of what results in what is diagnosed as an autism disorder in Western Developed countries is a result of culture/environment. Community wide scans in Amish Country show a prevalence of autism spectrum disorders at 1 in 271 among children ages 3 to 21, where technological advancements have stood relatively still for centuries, and 1 in 38 in South Korea where technology is cutting edge, and novel adaptations required for survival in Society are more complex than ever, and continuously changing. It appears that culture may be changing much faster for many and resulting in difficulties in adaptation for some that may not have been as apparent in the past, as we can view culture from an historic perspective though the Amish.

Whatever inherent potential there is that results in an autism spectrum disorder, will remain long after any type of remedies to address the more difficult associated symptoms in developed countries. And, if it is culture that is causing the numbers above and beyond the 1 in 271, a cure of turning back the hands of time to the past, is going to be a difficult pill for most people to swallow in developed countries.

As one might imagine if a cultural device in developed countries like a smart phone, was proven in part to result in a disabling disorder, it would be a difficult task for many people to volunteer to give them up. There is no research currently that suggests a direct association, but it's a good example of how tethered to modern technology people have become, to the point where some can no longer imagine being without their smart phones.

That's racist! Or orientationist. I forget which.

I don't know what makes the elite unhappy; I'm not one of them. But they have this insatiable lust for power... I'd say that's a bit of a disadvantage... They acquire more and more power, but no matter how much they have, it's never enough. An unquenchable thirst... That's gotta suck. I sorta have that when it comes to the pursuit of knowledge and understanding. I like it, because I learn more because of it, but at the same time, there's no such thing as enough. I always want to learn more.

I'm not defending the "status quo." I would love for everyone to have super powers and be able to fly around and stuff, but that's simply not possible. Do you seriously think you can just take a drug, and suddenly you'll wake up neurotypical? Even if that were possible, why the hell would you want it? And besides that, simply being neurotypical isn't some golden ticket into a secret club where everybody loves you and just gives you free s**t or the job you wanted or a girlfriend, or WHATEVER. Neurotypical people have challenges too. I don't understand why you and some others so desperately want to be totally different people. Do you really hate yourself THAT much?

Well, for starters, they could help us integrate into society by trying to change the way people think of and perceive autism in the first place. Most people think if you say you have aspergers, that it's the equivalent of being completely mentally ret*d. Most people don't understand that it's a spectrum. A lot of people, if I try to tell them I have aspergers, they simply won't believe me because they'll say I'm too smart to have it. In that regard, the fact that I'm on the high functioning end of the spectrum is both advantageous and disadvantageous. On one hand, I can get along better than the lower functioning people, but on the other hand, I appear to get along too well to need help, so nobody believes me, and nobody will help me. The ones who can see that I have problems still just think I'm immature or something.

Can I explain something very important to you? I'm not your enemy. I'm not trying to prevent a cure from existing or to prevent people from getting a cure. I simply don't think that autism is something that CAN be cured. If it can, by all means, take the cure, if that's what you want. I don't care. I just don't think it can be cured, and I don't like the connotations that the concept of curing it holds. It makes it seem as though autism is absolutely NOTHING BUT a disadvantage, and that we are a huge burden on everybody who doesn't have it. It makes us sound diseased. I don't consider myself diseased.

I don't think anyone was recently talking about abortion, so I'm not sure where this came from.

Nevertheless, this is why I believe that prenatal testing creates a huge moral dilemma. Abortions are going to happen, as are suicides, in the event of a "positive" for autism, down syndrome, etc. I am pro-choice, but I don't agree with the potential use of eugenics. There are also parents who would commit infanticide or suicide in the event of a positive.

I remember giving what I thought was a very informative presentation on what autism is, being careful to explain the actual neurological effects and presentation of symptoms in concise detail, and the only question I received being, "Can anyone get autism?"

This is why I dislike Autism Speaks. They portray autism as a disease [along the lines of cancer, AIDS], rather than as a disorder [more along the lines of chronic depression, insomnia]. It's fear-mongering along the lines of what PETA strives for.

This isn't an issue of stimming, weirdness, etc. Interaction skills are necessary, and I'm not really sure what you mean by social skills. I'm referring to communication to facilitate work activities among employees and between employees and customers. Employers know it's not financially sound to disfavor work ethic. Work has to be completed.

You have had your set of troubles. But I have to be blunt. You really exhibit no understanding of the cognitive/functional problems facing many who are classified on the autism spectrum. Sometimes brilliant individuals can't fathom what it is like to lack competence and to have difficulty in basic daily tasks. Not all have the proficiency and aptitude that you have.

I really do have a deficiency. I know it through what has occurred. Not some implication. I did not do the job. I wasn't getting my work done right. I was doing things wrong. I could not communicate. This was caused by my lack of ability and faulty approaches to tasks. I don't fall out of favor with employers for being different or whatever. I just really am not clever at all.

I avoid socializing cause I cannot do it. I tend to stay away from things if they're too difficult for me. I lack the ability to communicate clearly. Receptively and expressively.

Well then nobody could accuse you of lacking insite and self awareness dalurker.

Getting power usually isn't just for power. Sometimes it's directed at getting wealth, due to greed. You have an unlimited want for knowledge, but don't consider others' want for knowledge.


Super powers and flying? This isn't a conversation between overly obsessed sci-fi/comic fans. The real topic is real abilities/aptitudes/intelligences that are characteristic of humans on this planet. The problem is some do not have such abilities, and are living brutally difficult lives as a result. This has nothing to do with becoming neurotypical. What neurotypical would someone even be converted to?

I'm referring to treatments/modifications that enhance functioning/bring them abilities that others already have. Like abilities to understand language and express it verbally. Short-term memory, recall, spatial-visual-motor skills. Whichever abilities are needed to do basic errands and drive. Intelligence in general. These are the things that affect people, not particularly in some exclusive forum, or debate, or publication, but in all aspects of daily living. These are needs that cannot be avoided. You would know this if you listened to what I and others have been saying so many times.


Others will know you are brilliant as they see and interact with you, regardless of public ignorance on Aspergers. And you obviously know that. They do tend not to know it's a spectrum. Why do you act like you aren't aware it's a spectrum, when you know it really is? Regardless of what others know of my diagnosis, others do know I'm dumb after observing me, as I really am dumb. There are no disadvantages to being higher functioning. You have things to cope with that aren't problems in ability. You could get some help for that from some professional.


There are too many out there complaining of cure, and propagating falsehoods to make the goal seem unwanted. I'm starting to get seriously worried someone is going to sabotage the efforts to look for cure. Why are you so mad at it being seen as a disadvantage? You admit you know it's a spectrum. You don't consider yourself diseased? This is not all about you. Cure is for the lower-functioning.

Why not have the prenatal test followed promptly by a cure that would consist of genetic modifications that repair whichever genetic variations that will be known to diminish functioning?
It's not along the lines of chronic depression or insomnia. It tends to be a developmental disorder.

Are you talking about stuff like having a person give you an order for chicken or having your boss ask you to do something and realizing that not a single word of what was just said to you got translated from meaningless sounds into any recognizable thought, it just sounded like the adults on the Charlie Brown cartoons? That makes it fairly hard to work. My managers did get upset with me after asking me three times to do something, and I still was asking them what they wanted me to do because it never did translate on any of those three times. The more stressed I became, the worse my translation abilities became. The more stressed I got the more mistakes I made and the more stuff I forgot even when I knew what it was that was supposed to be done.

I do understand the limitations. My functionality is extremely variable,. Right now I am doing well primarily because I am not working. But...I still think that there are work-arounds for people like us. If my managers had simply written down what they wanted me to do, with some kind of a time frame or order for the tasks, that would have been much better than telling me verbally. My brain has limited translation ability and also terrible retention of spoken info as compared to stuff that is seen. That doesn't mean that I suck so badly that I should be eliminated or turned into one of these very rigid NT people.

Yes. Things like that.

I don't know what that has to do with elimination or being turned into some rigid NT. I don't know who is asking for that.

Observe: some of the most homophobic people out there are the ones who are either closet cases or purport to have been "cured" of being gay.

Perhaps you didn't read the statements directly before the first statement I made on abortion, specifically the one I responded to here: "Abortion is murder, whether an unborn baby has a disability or not."

Classical Eugenics was a one time limited state enforced policy by certain governments in the early part of last century. Liberal Eugenics has been occurring as a result of natural methods of infanticide and filicide into the pre-history of mankind. Any type of effective birth-control provides the potential for negative liberal eugenics as it allows assessed healthy robust individuals, a choice not to reproduce where otherwise there might not have been a choice.

Medical Science in general allows the weak to survive so it can also provide a type of negative liberal eugenics as well. Obviously positive liberal eugenics occurs as well, through selective abortion, but the negative liberal eugenics is much more prevalent in western developed countries; Abortion only provides a tiny percentage of the source of negative liberal eugenics in the western developed world as effective contraceptives are much more widely used, without any necessary regard to the health or physical constitution of the individuals that use effective contraceptives.

All types of liberal Eugenics have the potential of creating moral dilemmas; there is an ongoing one with the Catholic Church and contraceptives, world-wide, and in most every Abrahamic religion per the issue of legal abortion. The religious ideology of the Catholic Church is the most Eugenics negative ideology promoted by any group of human beings, in the western developed world. As long as there are Catholics there are going to be individuals on the Spectrum, regardless of prenatal tests, as abortion and effective contraception is not a personal option for most individuals that are part of the religion. It's also still the most popular world-wide Christian religion, as well. The most popular method of positive liberal Eugenics currently ongoing specific to Autism Spectrum Disorders is a decision by a couple to use effective contraceptives to not have another child when the first child is diagnosed with an autism spectrum Disorder. But, again, if one doesn't agree with this, one could join the Catholic Church, as they are in effect the most Pro-Autism life organization, and advances in the development of a prenatal test are not likely going to have much impact on that status.

That's a good question as to can anyone get autism. It is possible that almost anyone can be diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder, if they present the appropriate behavioral impairments regardless of whether the causal factors are nurture or nature. Currently symptoms are not required in childhood with the diagnosis of PDD NOS or Aspergers Syndrome.

Autism Spectrum Disorders are disorders; Autism Speaks specifically refers to them as Disorders not Disease in all their PSA's and information on their website. All neuro-developmental and neurological disorders are categorized under the general classification of disease in the International Classification of disease version 10, ICD10, including Autism Spectrum Disorders. Autism Spectrum disorders are classified under the general classification of disease by the Centers for Disease Control, CDC. Most disorders are medically classified under the medical definition of disease, which includes genetic heart defects, and many other genetic conditions and anomalies that are not communicable. It's just a general classification, nothing more nothing less.

Autism Speaks compares the prevalence statistics of childhood disease sub-classified medically as communicable disease, non-communicable disease and disorders including Aids, Cancer, and Cerebral Palsy, to provide an analogy of funding provided by the government to other disorders and diseases of childhood. Statistical association does not equivocate classification. But for some reason some people come to that conclusion when they see Autism Spectrum Disorders in the same sentence with other disorders and diseases of childhood associated by statistical prevalence.

This is how Autism Speaks describes what is Autism on their website linked and quoted below. They do not describe it in anyway that indicates that it is a disease, other than the co-morbid conditions associated with it, classified as disease, such as gastrointestinal illness.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism



And from the same link this is how they describe what it means to be on the spectrum:



I'm personally not seeing anything in there to reasonably be upset about or hate. I'm not sure how much fairer the organization can be in describing the full spectrum, including their mission associated with it.

i agree you have not said anything thats not said by the liberal pro choice viewpoint anyway.i dont think autism or disability was an issue one way or another in your statement.i dont take anything anyone says about autism and abortion seriously unless they are willing to actualy say roe v. wade should be over turned