Whats with all the Autism Speaks hate.

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Roe vs Wade wouldn't seem to mean owt in 205/206 countries .

very true but many people on this forum are american including the poster i quoted

At what point did I say any of this was all about me? I didn't, but I'm telling you about myself to explain WHY I feel the way I do. Why you've responded with "it's not all about you," and pretty much ignored everything else is beyond me, and you STILL seem to think that I somehow enjoy the fact that there are lower functioning people than I. And now you seem to be implying that it should be easy for me to get any help I might need, while at the same time suggesting that I don't need any help because I'm not "low functioning."

You can sit and say that people will see my brilliance all damn day, but it doesn't change the fact that only a few people who actually take the time to know me ever do that.

I KNOW what the hell you're talking about in terms of finding a cure, but you seem to act as though those without autism or those who are higher functioning are like f****n super heroes compared to you, and that simply isn't the case.

And by the way, you don't even friggin' know me. You have no idea what my abilities are and aren't. I'm smart, but I still have really sh***y motor skills. It's hard for me to understand what people are saying, and even when I hear what they say, sometimes it takes me a while to decipher what the hell they meant. I'm incredibly clumsy, and I come off as aloof or absent minded to most people. Don't sit there and talk about me like you know me.

Okay, so you don't want to be NT, but you want all your impairments gone. Your impairments are part of your AS, so what do you expect to become then, and how do you expect any of these changes to occur without physically altering your brain?

You really need to stop viewing people like me as your enemy or as some completely different untouchable class of people. Stop playing the victim card. You're starting to sound like a bitter black man who's still pissed about slavery... Or one of those crazy feminazis who keeps insisting that I'm privileged because I have a penis.

You haven't acted like this concerns others in different ways. You complain of others acknowledging the neurological problems many others have. I don't know what else to conclude from your unjustified hatred of the pursuit of cure. All I see from those like you is a self-righteous impulse of poindexters trying to keep their vast aptitudes to themselves without accountability. You described yourself before, so I said things in response considering that. So don't pull the I don't know you routine.
Why did you wait so long to mention impairments you have? Considering such problems, why do you so vehemently rail against things that could get rid of neurological problems?
Those who are very high-functioning are way ahead of me and do numerous things I can't do. I know this repeatedly from their own descriptions. They often can consistently talk clearly and communicate, drive, have great visual/spatial/motor skills, have really high IQs, easily achieve at school, and can have lucrative jobs.


They're part of my AS? Why do so many with AS not have them then? Oh, they're part of MY AS. That's ridiculous. Impairments are impairments, and are bad no matter what you try to label them as a part of. I just want to be equipped with the abilities I now lack. Why not alter my brain physically. It's not taboo.


If you're not my enemy, why do you have to bash things that I may like? Why do you trivialize the vile conditions I live through? Just stop with this anti-cure agenda, and I won't be against you. It's that simple.


So why do you keep saying things that represent and defend an intellectually privileged class of individuals?


I think of myself as a victim cause I've tried over and over to succeed and to do things, and achieved nothing but failure and lost out. All of this while some others get to live it up with success and with such ease. Envy is nothing to be ashamed of.

Jesus christ...

yeah, I have SUCH a lucrative job... I work at f*****g Pizza Hut. My motor/spatial skills suck absolute s**t. I run into things all the time, and I'm clumsy as f**k. I drop things and knock s**t over all the time. That part of my AS, I hate. I wish that would go away, but I know I can't just get rid of it. But I appreciate my AS because I feel it's what makes me not be a mindless idiot who cares about stupid celebrities, sports, etc. like everybody else. You DON'T know me, you ass, so I'm going to say it. I'm far from "successful" by most people's standards. If I didn't live with someone else to share bills with, I'd be f*****g homeless. Just because you have problems doesn't mean nobody else does. And don't give me s**t about supposedly trivializing your problems(which I never even did in the first place) when that's EXACTLY what YOU'RE doing, you hypocrite.

How many times do I have to tell you, I'm not against a cure. I'm not against anything, but I don't believe that a cure is even possible in the first place. How that makes me your enemy is beyond me.

I couldn't have known of your problems if you didn't express them.


Earlier on, you said things that were against cure. You didn't only say that you thought cure was impossible. You expressed common anti-cure themes.

Dalurker, I'm aware that I vowed never to interact with you again, but I was very angry at the time and I now feel compelled to converse with you.

I don't care about whether or not you believe me, but I am not part of this evil (non-existent) high-functioning elite you so continually describe.

Do I speak consistently clearly, and communicate perfectly? Absolutely not. People continually ask me to repeat what I've said, I often stutter, I am mostly silent at school, and I can only communicate perfectly with my family and close friends. Sometimes, when I am under pressure, I struggle to speak.

My family have never owned a car, so, I don't consider driving a necessity. When I grow up, I'll only attempt to learn how to drive if and when I've enough money to do so. There's more to life than being able to drive.

My motor skills are AWFUL, and as a result of this, I'm often bullied in PE at school. I often struggle with simple tasks such as opening a bottle or inserting a pile of books into a folder.

Although I'm in the top English class in my year at school, I'm in bottom classes for everything else because I simply find it too difficult. I consider myself more intelligent than my NT classmates in the sense that I don't conform to their ridiculous social structure and I don't feel compelled to exclude or abuse those who are different, but, in an academic sense, I'm somewhat behind.

I just wanted to tell you that, and I also wanted to tell you that groups who support the anti-cure view don't want to see Autistic people like you suffer. They want to give you the right to exist. They also want to give you the right to live an enriching, happy life. This would be achieved by making society more accepting and accommodating of your differences, and perfecting the education system to target the disabling aspects of Autism. No group works towards the SINGLE aim of preventing a "cure", groups like AFF also want to improve quality of life for Autistics they want to continue existing.

The very high-functioning can't hoard YOUR abilities for themselves because they weren't YOURS to begin with. Your envy is understandable, but these evil high-functioning Autistic elitists who want you to suffer; reading your posts while saying "Oh yeah ... These abilities are so f*****g good!! ! That low-functioning douchebag's gonna have to suffer forever!! ! That's soooo hilarious!! ! MWUHAHAHAH!! !" simply do not exist. Hopefully, the above statement is just reductio ad absurdum on my part, but you seriously have to stop thinking like this.

Also, you must stop viewing anti-cure people as your enemies.



By bashing the anti-cure agenda, you bash things that DerStadtschuz likes. He doesn't consider you his enemy because you're pro-cure, therefore, you shouldn't consider him yours because he's anti-cure.

P.S ~ Please don't enroll me in another "AUTISM NEEDS TO BE CURED! NO IT DOESN'T! YES IT DOES! NO IT DOESN'T!! ! YES IT DOES!! ! NO IT DOESN'T ... debate. I've already presented my views on a "cure" and I don't feel compelled to do so again.

Last edited by Curiotical on 27 Oct 2012, 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I am anti cure, and I challenge the pro cure people to explain to me how advocating a cure is not tantamount to advocating genocide.

The moment a 'cure' becomes available is the moment that all of us are deemed 'sick', whether we want it or not.

Another thing, if we keep going along the line of 'curing' and pre natal dectection, we are going to see more foetuses being aborted because of potential autism, can that really be justified? Here is the AFF line which i greatly agree with-

Part of the problem with the "autism as tragedy" point of view is that it carries with it the idea that a person is somehow separable from autism, and that there is a "normal" person trapped "behind" the autism.

Being autistic is something that influences every single element of who a person is - from the interests we have, the ethical systems we use, the way we view the world, and the way we live our lives. As such, autism is a part of who we are.

To "cure" someone of autism would be to take away the person they are, and replace them with someone else.

Also, funding for "cure" research is unlikely to ever produce a result. In the meantime, support services for autistic people are underfunded. This money would be far better used to help existing autistic people.

The cure mentality also influences cultural treatment of autistic people. Many parents focus on the idea of finding a cure for their child, and may neglect actual help and support in the process. Also, teaching children that they are "broken" and need to be "fixed" has long-term consequences for their mental health.

how is advocating a cure genicide.genicide is killing people not changing them,even if changing them is wrong.
the term your looking for would be cultural genicide which would be brain washing people against there own nature

I'm against the IDEA that we NEED to be "cured" in the first place. It suggests that there's something terribly wrong with us, that we're diseased, or broken. That's wrong. We can do many things if people just give us the chance to do things our own way. But because we're different, we're seen as inferior, bad, broken, diseased... That's simply not right. Whether or not a cure is possible, I still feel the same way about the idea that a cure is needed. It's not needed or possible. And so what if autistic people need someone to live with them and help take care of them for life? So do quadriplegics. So do really old people and people who've lost limbs and stuff. Those people can get people to look after them, so why can't we push for the same things for us? Why should we pretend to be defective?

I consider aspergers part of who I am. It's the reason why I'm so different from most people. I wouldn't want to be like everybody else.

Cure does not mean elimination of a person. Autism Spectrum Disorders are a collection of behavioral impairments described by psychologists and defined by them in copyrighted manuals to diagnose people with a disorder. As far as the psychologists are concerned behavioral impairments that do not work together to significantly impair one in an important area of life functioning means no diagnosis of a disorder.

Researchers are working toward a cure in remediation of the symptoms of behavioral impairments that end up in the diagnosis of a disorder significantly impairing one in an important area of life functioning; they are certainly not trying to get rid of the person.

Effective methods of finding therapies that work for remediation of those symptoms has been evidenced in recent research per the link below, in subgroups of those with "milder" impairments. These children are still living and thriving in their worlds, as well as interacting with those around them. That is not a reasonably harsh goal of cure, per remediation of symptoms. And certainly does not come close to any definition of genocide.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/10/26/behavior-therapy-normalizes-brains-of-autistic-children

You (and AFF) are quite mistaken, if a person was cured of Autism they would be the same person but without the skill deficits.

Then stop making up such claims in anger that you won't abide by.


I don't know why you communicate right with some but not with others. I'm not ok with my impairment in communicating with others.


That is irrelevant. Some do want to drive and need to. Why should you have the right to make that choice for me? Choosing for yourself not to do something due to circumstances, shouldn't lead you to choose for me not to. I fundamentally don't like that I'm too impaired to drive. Why should I be deprived of such a basic skill?


What benefit do you get from such problems?


Trying to think you're smarter than all others around you isn't going to help. Intelligence isn't the same thing as non-conformity. I don't conform to a lot of things, but that doesn't make me smarter than anyone. Intelligence is the ability to do cognitive tasks, as it pertains to learning and speed of completion. It is required for many successes, including academic. That's just the cold basic truth. I don't like the way it is either. What justice is there in getting less than others, even after working so hard? Why is it fair that a small percent get to learn so easily and effortlessly, and accumulate enormous resulting success?


All we deserve is the right to remain living? How will they guarantee safety? Some autistics have wandered off and drowned, due to the way their particular form of the condition afflicts them. How much inhuman suffering and misery are we obligated to endure in return for our right to exist?


They don't care for anyone's life enrichment but their own. What do they consider an enriching and happy life? They won't acknowledge, that for many, such a happy life doesn't include intense dependence on others and missing out on opportunities due to lack of aptitude. They talk as if basic abilities are trivial, or if that tactic doesn't work, they imply that the disabilities involved aren't real or are just temporary. I don't have differences. I have disabilities, which I loathe. Disability isn't something to accept. It can be accommodated to a limited extent. Education systems can't make all individuals high-academic achievers, though extra effort can enable some to learn of things to an extent. Learning occurs inside the brain. Neurological strength is indispensable. It's just the way it is. Why not make it so all have sufficient neurological aptitude so they can learn without such intense burden?


What makes their abilities "theirs"? Ability/aptitude is determined predominantly by genetics, which is very hereditary and often random. The core abilities they have are versatile for learning and doing tasks, and everyone needs to do many different tasks, and various individuals end up with such abilities. So there is nothing particular of such abilities to those who possess them, and they should be had by the human species as a whole.

They won't just come out and say such things like that, of course.


I bash in retaliation, as that agenda is damaging to me. My agenda doesn't hurt anyone. Being deprived of the right to dominate and rise above others, is not something forward thinkers consider a legitimate grievance.


You can't go around dropping insults and provocations, and expect no response.

I challenge you to explain what evidence you have to support an inflammatory and defamatory accusation of genocide against a goal of curing developmental disability with breakthrough medical treatments.


Stop making stuff up. You're not a victim.


Abortions occur for many reasons. Go try to ban abortion if you want. Cure is not abortion. The dead can't be cured. The autistics who died from drowning won't be cured. I don't see your side crying any crocodile tears over them.


What aspect of autism in the concrete, is characteristic of ALL individuals who are autistic, that you are trying to preserve? What does all of that stuff you mentioned have to do with the neurological basis of basic life and academic skills? Absolutely nothing.


You know better than the best researchers in the biomedical sciences? You're going to trounce all of them? Where are your credentials? The money spent on research is miniscule compared to the money needed to fund services for all autistics who need them. Sure, the amount of money spent on research is large, but it's still a small ball park number compared to the scale of funding needed for services/education/care etc. Even if all of the research money were reappropriated as you want, there would still be a massive funding shortfall for services. Research will save a lot of money and misery in the long run, when cure makes living bearable. Not many existing autistics have voted for your pessimistic submissive agenda.

The self-esteem movement has been a monumental failure for NTs, as it would be for anyone.

Who is anyone to determine what is "wrong"? Something is wrong. There are problems, and we don't need to be browbeaten into pretending we don't have problems.


Disability isn't a different way. It's a lack of a way.


Disability isn't a neutral difference. It is a negative difference.


It is needed. Who willingly spends life being impaired? Get real. You're not qualified to say it isn't possible.


It's damaging to one's pride and exercise of initiative. And it's offensive towards privacy. Nobody is falling for this nonsense you're saying.


The old haven't spent their entire adult lives living with their parents, being nurtured by them, while pursuing no ambitions of their own.


What does that have to do with anything?

Autistic people are a homogenous minority with their own culture, values and though processes. To eliminate autism is to elimate this society.




I am making nothing up. If autism became curable, then to NT society, it would become a disposable affront to be gotten rid of; NT's would seek to make it mandatory for all rather than spending money on interventionary counselling and treatment. Its basic economics, it has nothing to do with victimhood. Moreover it would herald greater marginalisation of autistics who do not want to be cured, they would be regarded as stubborn whiners not willing to 'suck it up and take their medicine'.


Really you are missing my point. I do not want to ban abortion, quite the contrary, I am pro choice. However, I do not want to see foetuses being aborted BECAUSE of their autism. Imagine this scenario - "I am sorry Mrs Smith, but we have detected that your child has autism and is likely to have severe social and reasoning problems as well as a host of other possible interaction issues" Now imagine this scenario " Mrs Smith we have detected that your child will be in a similar neurological group to Issac Newton, Nikolai Tesla, Einstein and Andy Warhol" , now of which of those scenarios would be most likely to provoke an abortion?

Last edited by thomas81 on 28 Oct 2012, 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.