41 reasons to save Asperger's, not mild, DSM-V

Post Reply New Topic

Some of you may follow the research I'm involved with at Harvard Medical School and Beth Israel Hospital. What I have learned is that there do seem to be brain differences that separate people on the autism spectrum from neurotypical folks. So science is beginning to figure out hard measurements that identify us as a specific subgroup of humanity, just as we have people with type a or type o blood.

However, there are no hard measurements (yet) that are predictive of autistic disability. The brain differences we see in autism apply equally to a nonverbal person and someone else you might call a brilliant fellow with a touch of Asperger's.

So the science is showing us to be the same in that way, and the same in our differences even thouch some of us are profoundly disabled by this condition and a few of us are equally enabled.

No one has identified any repeatable reliable diagnostic criteria that would separate autism and Asperger's in adults. There are "high" and "low" functioning autistic and Aspergian individuals. While it's true that more high function people are identified as Asperger's, there is no hard line or diagnostic difference. It's really pretty arbitrary, it turns out.

That's the essential reason people advocate for this change.

Against that, you have a large number of people whose identity is wrapped up in a diagnosis, and you have concerns that publich health or education funding may be cut when and if a person's diagnostic categorization changes. Finally, you have the possiblity of diagnostic confusion and confusion by lay people because the range of affect in autism spectrum disorders is so broad.

Frankly, I don't know if I should be for or against the change, but it's not for me to decide, and I can live perfectly happily either way. Remember that we are in tne end all individuals and all fellow humans, two points that transcend diagnosis.

I've got more thought son my blog, at http://jerobison.blogspot.com

I am just upset even more now that they are trying to get rid of the label (as much as I actually hate labels, save this one) Asperger's Syndrome. I am an Aspie, will always BE an Aspie, and the idiots writing the stupid psych books should come visit our world and see why it is that we don't want them to get rid of our label. I just think it will confuse people, now that they're just gonna call us high-functioning.

Nice, I support your beliefs, another reason why AS should be saved is because it fits me so well, and; Web Page Name

Though I like the use of the term Asperger's as it pertains to me, I accept the use of the term High Functioning Autism. It is fine by me to be included in the ASD. I know some people don't like the idea of being grouped together (high, middle, low), but I am not ashamed to be a part of the autism spectrum grouped together (not to say that shame is a reason for people not wanting to be grouped together---but I do sense that with some).

Looking at the topic here, it mentions the term Asperger's being substituted for "mild." I am not for that. Mild does not fit all of us with Asperger's. But I have been led to believe that the use of "mild" won't necessarily be applied just because we have Asperger's---we can still be considered "moderate" for example.

The problem being met is, Asperger's Syndrome is not a disability. As such, it can be, and not get the needed care. Mild ASD will.

Many who will continue to meet the Asperger's Criteria, will not fall under the DSM view of ASD, for there is a halo around all conditions, except being dead or pregnant.

There will be just as many people who meet two of three Asperger Criteria. For them, it does make the most sense of life, but Geek is not in the DSM or considered a disability, unless you are trying to get a date.

This change was needed to see to it that those who need help get it. Insurance companies were the problem, a Dx of Asperger's, they would not pay, Autism, ASD, they would.

Asperger's is not being abolished, Asperger's Criteria is not being abolished, His type cases were not considered disabled. They are rightfully being pushed out of the DSM.

Besides the ones who meet the criteria, those who meet most of the criteria, some, parts, others who say some traits, will all live happily outside of the DSM view of a disability. More or less, happy.

Are they still Autistic, yes, all the way out to the edge of Broader Autism Phenotype.

A few will get called Mild ASD, for the purpose of getting services they need, the rest will be driven away with sticks and strong words, Geek will never make the DSM, Begone!! !! !

The issue is drawing a clear line for disability benefits. I think this meets that goal.

For every one who fits under all ASDs as revised, there are at least ten who are outside, just where they have always been.

The sub clinical are just that, Not Clinical Grade Autism.

It is one of the larger personality groups, like all others they have traits and problems, and so does everyone else.

While I think I do fit Asperger's Criteria, I am most often called a Nerd. I have gotten used to it, the same for the people I deal with.

I hold it to be as important as my Myers Briggs class, close to my horoscope, more hits than misses, it is a tool to help me understand myself.

My only doubts about redifining Autism in the DSM were if they included, can fix computers, owns lots of books, does not watch sports on TV, and does not love all people. They made a wise choice in not trying to expand the frachise.

I think Broader Autism Phenotype is 10% of the population. They have problems, they are problems, but not the worst hairless ground apes running around. They are outnumbered by people suffering Clinical Depression, they run about equal with left handers, and while we are socially ret*d, those left handers are backwards.

We will still get colds, spend life eating and sleeping, and I take this new DSM as an offer of a Treaty of Peace, they will be responsible, and we should leave them alone.

In an act of good faith, they have stopped using Asperger's Syndrome, which is a better club name than Sub Clinical Autism. Being kicked off the list of mental disabilities is not the worst thing that has ever happened. It is still just a difference in thought and perception, and we should make the most of it.

The Gates of Hell have slammed shut, and we are on the outside.

While mostly it does get better with time, it can also get worse, and anyone can suffer depression, and they will open the gate for cause.

As Danielismyname points out, Wing saw that Asperger's did not meet a disability, and changed it to ASD to cover those who did. Asperger was pointing out that very bright people in general show some austic traits. So we do still fit the original criteria, outside disability and the DSM.

We own Asperger's Syndrome!

I think what is meant here is that when we look at the current DSM it says you must meet like 2 of the 3 following things, or 1 of 5, or whatever. Now, it's more or less saying that you have to meet each thing?

DSM math, out of a collection of traits, due to the different presentations, three criteria must be met to the degree that they are a major impairment.

Three Inpairments= A Disability.

Now there is a vast pool of people who show some of all the traits, where some rise to impairment level, who meet the Asperger Criteria, but do not meet the Wing Criteria.

Asperger's Syndrome= A Personality Type.

Asperger showed that a personality type that filled the Arts and Sciences, had Autistic traits.

His type cases lived at home, went to school, were upper class well to do familes, and went on to lead normal lives.

Asperger was a childrens doctor, MD, and saw nothing about his type cases that needed any treatment.

His addition to science is, that which is different is not defective, this differance of thought and perception can be found throughout the Arts and Sciences. He found the same traits in the Professions, the Arts, where a touch of Autism made for outstanding performance.

The traits of focus, persistance, memory, perfect pitch, set the Broader Autism Phenotype above ordinary performance.

His type cases were not chosen to show a defect, but a clear example of traits that could be found through the highest levels of Arts and Science.

Asperger looks outward into the general population. He shows that whatever causes Autism, which can be a total disability, also causes the highest performance of humans.

Wing looks at where the traits found in a large percentage of the population do become a disability.

The DSM looks at services for the disabled, Wing and ASD fits.

Asperger was never part of Psychology, his view was Medical, the normal range of humans.

He said his type cases were not defective, just different, he does not connect them with the people that filled mental institutions, but with traits found through the highest levels of human performance.

Asperger's Syndrome does not belong in the DSM, it is a Medical Type shown by a broad group of highly successful people. While the traits are most definatly Autism, they are applied to reach high levels of performance.

The Markrams Intense World Syndrome, show it as a behavior, under stress, most socialize more, the autistic turn within.

as johnnrobison says, autism is just a sub group of humanity, like blood type. 10% of people have a difference in neurological wiring.

Recent reports show that East Asians use a different part of the brain to process math. The West uses the words part, the East as pictures.

It seems likely that all of the 22 Genetic Haplogroups out of Africa have differances in mental processing.

There is no Standard Mark I Neurotypical Human to measure against, we are a collection of sub species.

The only line that can be drawn is, Is this person disabled by their condition and in need of help?

This right here is the most important thing. The purpose of the DSM is not to help people figure out what community they best fit into. The purpose of the DSM is to help people get the accomodations, benefits or assistance they need.

I don't care either way. Hell, I usually refer to myself as Autistic anyway. It feels like the same thing to me.

My hand literally shot up in the air. Psychiatry is my special interest. I even read a book that was fairly recent but used the term "manic-depression" to describe the illness.

Do I get bonus points for knowing about Dementia Praecox? Pure Paranoia? Female hysteria? ...Well, admittedly, DP is still a recognized disorder under another name, whereas IIRC, the other two are not.

Which is a shame. The world would be a much trippier place if doctors regularly helped assertive women achieve hysterical paroxysm.

Then again, I think I'd be even more scared of them than I already am. But I bet the manic-depressives would like it!

...Sorry, I get a little crazy about my special interests. Or perhaps it would be more PC to say I get a little mentally ill. A little Neurodiverse.

I need to stop this right now, before I question whether "Neurodiverse" should really be capitalized. I can just see myself comparing Japanese and Latin.

I can see this causing trouble for some. I've encountered employers, for example, that have worked out that Asperger's does not always equal mild in every aspect but can't get their head round more complex things, like people who are mildly autistic in some ways and moderately autistic in others. Now both of those happen to describe me, and from the discussions that occurred when the people who diagnosed me, I get the impression that the Asperger's diagnosis was largely to keep me in mainstream education, not due to analysing the extent of my disability in real-life situations and deciding it fit Asperger's better than HFA.

If I got my differential with a view to putting me in a particular education setting, others will have. This means that there'll be a bunch of people who are likely to be assumed "mild" by non-specialists once they hear there's "no such thing as Asperger's any more" when the picture is far more complex for many of them - and in my experience they neither prepare for alternate possibilities nor listen to explanations from people with autism indicating such patterns exist.

This is a few months old, but it's worth resurrecting IMHO, because the closer we get to DSM-V being adopted, the more important the issue will become.

My take?

It's moot as to whether it becomes Autism Spectrum or remains ASD.

The fact is, no matter what "THE BOOK" (hear drastic canyon-like echoes when you read that - as in "THE BOOK-OOK-OOK-ook-okk!), says, people, meaning you, me, that guy over there (yeah you!), doctors, therapists, etc. etc. etc. will still be using the term Asperger's, and we will all know exactly what it means.

Read Asperger. He didn't call it Asperger's. He called it Autism. His entire goal was centered around expanding his contemporaries understanding of Autism to include milder forms of Autism, not to define a new Syndrome.

That said, it's just a matter of semantics, not a difference in understanding.

ASD not being in the DSM-V is only going to change what's on paperwork. It's just a bureaucratic thing that you, me and that guy over there (Yes you! you didn't think I'd forget you did ya?!), aren't going to be forced by anyone to worry about. I'm still going to call it Asperger's, and I'll bet you anything the only people who won't know what I'm talking about will be people who already don't know what it is anyway.

The behaviors and traits that are not being dismissed. The spectrum itself isn't being shrunk to exclude anyone. If it does happen, what Asperger originally set out to accomplish, would be exactly what is being accomplished. The expansion of the understanding of Autism has already been happening. Including ASD specifications under the definition of Autism is just the profession officially acknowledging that fact by "Officially" calling it Autism.

The fact is, it already is Autism, and has always been considered so!

It doesn't change whether you consider yourself an Aspie, or are "allowed" to call yourself one. Nobody is saying you can't.

Whoa!

Let me take this opportunity to say, I WAS DEAD WRONG!

This debate is ANYTHING BUT MOOT!

Goes to show why I should shut my mouth until I get to the root of discussion by digging up the original source.

Until now, all I have heard about is MERGING AS into Autism, but that isn't all that's happening!

They aren't just merging it folks! They are CHANGING the criterion! No sense going on about it in this thread though.

I will only tell you here that now that I've actually read the proposed changes, I'm dead set against them.

I also think they should just call it all Autism because that is what it is!
People who have cerebral palsy have different functioning levels and we dont have a truck load of different names for that do we?

Not quite sure what you mean by that but what I have been told and what I have read they are changing the DX to Autism Spectrum Disorder.

"One key issue is a new single diagnostic category, "autism spectrum disorders," that would incorporate autistic disorder, Asperger's syndrome, childhood disintegrative disorder and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified."

Liloleme, that's a good analogy, but (especially in psychiatry, unless that's just my bias toward my special interest) there are other examples of a disease that's basically another disease only ramped up to eleven. PMDD is just PMS, only more so. Dysthymia is basically mild depression.

Is it sane? No. But there are such cases.