asperger intentional community

Post Reply New Topic

I'm affrayed things aren't that simple

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6nNcW2M73E

NTs just can't cope well with these gems

Last edited by omicron on 07 Mar 2010, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

(alredy answered)
We will torture them, kill them and eat them of course, don't waste the proteins. (its a joke, don't take this literally )

More in details maybe, maybe i was took to literally here.
Kids imprint with people they grow up with, people they grow up with are sexually unattractive to them. As teens alredy they will ALL want to leave. By all aspie community, i didn't meant at racial purity level. Young kids are ok, also for demographic issues, you'll need NT women to keep the male/female balance.



And i'm really a computer , i like binary inverse modulo calculations 128 bits long, in my spare time, between batch jobs .

Its not a gheto, think of it more like a family. You will not need permission to go and play with the other kids of the block . I believe that even NTs should start communities, not necessary NT only, any thing they want. This is not a separatism proposal, as you seem to have interpret it. I start to be annoyed by this recurrence. I'm not with the KKK either.

Put simply, life has its load of problems. Alone you are too week. In a group you can stand beater against the competition. One advantage is economies of scale, that can get substantial (you will work less). The other, you can get shielded from discrimination problems. Simply from a job perspective, now, you are probably an employ, basically you get orders and shut up(most jobs are like this), in the community you have a voice. Actually we(humans) alredy live in communities, but they are either huge, or too authoritarian, or too week.

to put it simply, just assume you have decided to enter in a community where everybody is like you, and theres also me. And propose your amendments to the little constitution (in the first page). I wrote the constitution on my own, in 10 minutes, it is not meant to be taken word for word, its just a first proposal. I expect a real final text to be very big. What changes do you propose? What wording do you propose to take in too account your above concerns?. Its a pragmatic proposal, and i'm very willing to compromise, the spirit of the community is to make compromises with the others(it's not a democracy, very important, its NOT A DEMOCRACY). The formalism, is not because i lack trust in others, the reason is to avoid conflict, or reduce its severity when it WILL arise. You really need formalism, its not just me who is weird, and no, it will not end up like wikipedia, because everybody nows everybody else and theres control in who enters and leaves.

omicron - I understand your view, but I want to accomodate society to myself, and believe it's possible. I want our community to be like WP, not a physical one, and from there to show other people who we really are.

If we just gather up, and form a new society, we would cause hatred and negativity, and later our society will have NTs, which can be good - just as NTs can be (and some are) in this world. It's an interesting idea, but I feel it's better to work on this world as it is, using virtual communities.

Sorry, i consider that WP has become quite a vile place. Thats a huge unbridgeable difference in opinion. You can't just throw people together and expect them to work, we aren't ants. Even ants have worker casts. You need organization, organization doesn't just happen, its made.

I think you still have a strong assumption that it will become a gheto.

There's no dichotomy between the community and society. See it as a federation, theres no dichotomy between federal state and federated states. Its just a better way of organizing people. Communities in general are a further administrative division, the argument is that the smallest division above them is still too big. Theres no "new society", theres no us vs them.

Also, you completely ignored the economic advantages of a community. I don't know if you noticed, but our society is flawed in many ways. Communities, is one strategy to beater the place.

You can see it this way. All liver cells, aren't in the liver because they are racist. They are all in the liver simply because they work beater together. Countless living beings or sub units cooperate, simply because they are more efficient. Thats a fact.

You putt many aspies together, for the same reason you put all liver cells in the liver. This doesn't mean we have an apartheid. You don't work 24/7, when your obligations are over, you are free to wonder off. If one day you want to see your NTs friends you do that, if an other day you want to hang around aspies from the community you do that to. If after a number of years in the community you decide you have enough, you can leave, if later you want to return, you return. Its like a big marriage.

Existing NT communities are very homogeneous in there membership too. They will simply be enable to function otherwise. Its like a marriage, people don't marry at random.

An aspie community would be able to care for the lower functioning autistics, politically, financially and directly. The community business? To answer you argument from an other thread about bettering society.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt121156.html

Great clip!

However, that is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I was surprised too, but some neurotypicals who are exposed to that kind of thing on a daily basis, and who are smart enough to understand intellectually what's going on, do get to the point where they can take that kind of thing in stride and process it nonjudgmentally.

Granted it seems to take years of close exposure, such as being married to an aspie for years.

Of course - autism is not who we are, it's just part of who we are.
But why would it be different in your proposed community? I like the differences as they are.


When you move away physically, it makes a feeling of us vs them...


That's not an autistic society you're talking about now - that's a good society. You can do that without autistic people.


Together we stand - divided we fall. No arguments here.


I understand that, I think - but I still want to live in the NT society. My NT friends live in Israel, so if you won't do that here, it should be a problem... Plus, I am part of my whole society, area, etc., I can't "disconnect". I don't want to, as well.

I appreciate your general idea of peaceful communities - but I just don't think it's an issue of NTs vs Aspies.

let in some introvert NT's. The trouble is when Aspies reproduce together the chance of having LFA's are high thus eliminating the Aspie's smart genes. The Aspies would waste money looking after their LFA children when they could use it for their NT or HFA or AS kids.

You can see it as bad politics, or recurrent negative advertising. Its not necessary that they get piste at you over some thing like this. In general it drives there tolerance down on whatever you do. The correlation doesn't need to be direct. Bad emotions build up gradually over time. Even if they "forgive you" officially, the brain didn't forgive. Politics and propaganda really do work, thats why government use them. Smartness doesn't help. This thing influences what you want, not your logic. Advertising, doesn't force you to buy things, it makes you want them.

Either you are "politically" compensating somehow, or you keep safe distances or the NTs in question are some sort of "mutants". Hint that theres truth in this, its that it rarely happens what you say. This strategy is very inefficient and exhausting. Also what happens with lower intelligence aspies( not ret*d), or deeper autistics? You need to be super smart to pull this out. And what about kids? They just suffer until they build up experience or get lucky? Just look at your self.

I expect that there will be an important self selection bias in favor of the mutant NTs by the presence of the aspie community, i think the higher visibility of the community could help in this. Keep in mind that the community works on compromises, we can set some sort of quota for the different populations, them self amendable. What quota or population control system would you propose. You have to state the goals of the community in the little constitution, so that all members that join are on the same page and are able to compromise. Also if i remember correctly female /male ratios are 4:1, giving on average 37,5% of NT women for sex balance. What quota will make comfortable? If the use of quotas shock you, well, you have to put something concrete in the constitution.

These things are part of my fetishes, i really tried to avoid writing a lecture on the subject. I can talk you to death.

That's an awful lot of NT women you would need. The things you would need to do to attract NT women and get them to stay in the long term would make it less amenable to autistic people.

@ Omerik

Ok, here i didn't apply my own poisons. The communities of the type i present are based on making compromises, not democratic voting. Take a normal community, with no special membership. The aspies of the community(assumed not a negligible fraction), will have a veto as a group, how they decide to use it is there problem. Alternatively, a disproportionate voting weight can be applied, short of being able to veto on there own. A guaranteed membership could be reserved for them in the community governing body, along with other minorities(women, men balance, actual ethnicities), with use of a rotational presidency. Various variations can be imagined with special opt outs, opt ins, from the main community, or independence on various issues, with appropriate negotiated compensations.

In a community like this, you are expected to give in ground for a collective compromise. The constitutional arrangement included.

Thats not necessarily true. Few genes recombine in a clear way. Mendel pees experiments where carefully selected. A study? How important is the phenomenon?

great clip

that's kinda sad, because I've really given up the possibility of having a relationship with an NT.

You are betting in the Russian roulette against your self.

You can use double veto for both as groups. Use the compromise i proposed to omirek. You can't extrapolate from a group of two to n, the dynamics are different. For example, just the fact of having NT and aspie women together, can't be extrapolated from a group of two. Groups, have a "mind" of there own. Things you'll never do on your own, you hell do them in a group, good or bad. Remember the torture scandal in Iraqi jails by American soldiers? They never went to Iraq telling them selves they'll torture and take photos of the acts. Your argument is an open question, hard to say what it really going to happen. It very much depend on the organization of the group, with proper organization it should work.

Actually, i now, bend more with my proposal to omirek. Earlier i concentrated too much on technicalities, and not how people will react to the proposal it self. The shortest distance between two points, its almost never a straight line, in the real world.

Oh ----, just find out WP stands for Wrong Planet, not wikipedia