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The Theory of Mindlessness - A polemic

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memesplice
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15 Jul 2011, 5:07 am

Gedrene wrote:
ci wrote:
When thinking of that matter specifically I find that there are two important factors to consider.

1. Autism is a disorder label describing certain symptoms and not the whole person. Though some people it would seem purposely call themselves a disorder label.

2. A disability label traditionally is perceived as in of itself something to understand within the modality of pathology. Even typical human behavior is perceived without emotional sensitivities.


THe second sentence there makes no sense at all.


Actaully it does in this respect - if you want to define yourself as bing autistic to a degree you have to accept the label which goes with it or the defintion is invalid and meaningless. It doesn't make sense in the respect if you seen no validity in the label, but then you loose the argument before its developed through trying to define yourself within its terms.

This is semantic jujitsu, and at very skilled level Ci likes a workout,- don't get drawn if you can't see the moves ahead. Its not about right or wrong, just the moves- countermoves ,we're testing the strength of arguments, not tyring to get one over or hurt anyone.



Last edited by memesplice on 15 Jul 2011, 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

ci
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15 Jul 2011, 5:13 am

Gedrene wrote:
ci wrote:
When thinking of that matter specifically I find that there are two important factors to consider.

1. Autism is a disorder label describing certain symptoms and not the whole person. Though some people it would seem purposely call themselves a disorder label.

2. A disability label traditionally is perceived as in of itself something to understand within the modality of pathology. Even typical human behavior is perceived without emotional sensitivities.


THe second sentence there makes no sense at all.


Take into context the reply before.


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ci
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15 Jul 2011, 5:16 am

memesplice wrote:
Yep but that's fine in acadmic research to a point , but when you have an organisation a media budget the size of a small third world country's and they are running TV advertising, I don't think this is something the public can respond to in such an objective humane way.

It certainly gives ammuntion to extreme groups to develop dnagerous misconceptions of us. ( I had an interesting exchange ' the other day with a neo-nazi visiting here, who I'm sure holds this view of everyone except those he perceives as his own 'kind'-kin ) The problem is degrees of this dehumanization to disease and pathology expressed through the media, released into society and absorbed in wider culture. These are are fed by these kind of labels and corporate brands- recycled in everyday life for mass consumption and reflected in individual and organizational responses to us.

Maybe those generating and applying these labels don't realise the knock-on effect?


Yes. But individuals have the right to have their autism perceived as something serious and that effects them. The right to "cure" to a disorder does not mean painted the disorder label within society as rosy and pleasant.


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memesplice
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15 Jul 2011, 5:17 am

I got to go and do somehting constructive like clean the house- you had enough work out Ci ?



ci
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15 Jul 2011, 5:18 am

memesplice wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
ci wrote:
When thinking of that matter specifically I find that there are two important factors to consider.

1. Autism is a disorder label describing certain symptoms and not the whole person. Though some people it would seem purposely call themselves a disorder label.

2. A disability label traditionally is perceived as in of itself something to understand within the modality of pathology. Even typical human behavior is perceived without emotional sensitivities.


THe second sentence there makes no sense at all.


Actaully it does in this respect - if you want to define yourself as bing autistic to a degree you have to accept the label which goes with it or the defintion is invalid and meaningless. It doesn't make sense in the respect if you seen no validity in the label, but then you loose the argument before its developed through trying to define yourself within its terms.

This is semantic jujitsu, and at very skilled level Ci likes a workout,- don't get drawn if you can't see the moves ahead. Its not about right or wrong, just the moves- countermoves ,we're testing the strength of arguments, not tyring to get one over or hurt anyone.


Ok let's practice because I've setup arguments and potential counter arguments for many relevant associated subjects for media. I enjoy to practice it so would you like to start a new topic?


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Last edited by ci on 15 Jul 2011, 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

ci
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15 Jul 2011, 5:19 am

memesplice wrote:
I got to go and do somehting constructive like clean the house- you had enough work out Ci ?


I am installing a new lawn. it has the wild garlic in it and massive weeds. I ordered special lab created golf course seed. It has been a workout.


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memesplice
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15 Jul 2011, 5:20 am

ci wrote:
memesplice wrote:
Yep but that's fine in acadmic research to a point , but when you have an organisation a media budget the size of a small third world country's and they are running TV advertising, I don't think this is something the public can respond to in such an objective humane way.

It certainly gives ammuntion to extreme groups to develop dnagerous misconceptions of us. ( I had an interesting exchange ' the other day with a neo-nazi visiting here, who I'm sure holds this view of everyone except those he perceives as his own 'kind'-kin ) The problem is degrees of this dehumanization to disease and pathology expressed through the media, released into society and absorbed in wider culture. These are are fed by these kind of labels and corporate brands- recycled in everyday life for mass consumption and reflected in individual and organizational responses to us.

Maybe those generating and applying these labels don't realise the knock-on effect?


Yes. But individuals have the right to have their autism perceived as something serious and that effects them. The right to "cure" to a disorder does not mean painted the disorder label within society as rosy and pleasant.



You aint getting me into that corner. :) - valued worthy loved potential-immense haman first -objective label to match with honest description of 'disorder' - yetch i do not like 'disorder' either -



memesplice
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15 Jul 2011, 5:22 am

Wild garlic in a lawn! - Supposed to be really good for bare feet and blisters, have fun.



ci
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15 Jul 2011, 5:23 am

Change society so the raw truth does not need to be said so as to benefit other outcomes aside from cure (right to treatment) agenda to benefit self-esteem (dignity). It is very fundamental. These rights are not dependent upon nor attached to the reputation of any organization.

8)


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15 Jul 2011, 5:31 am

ci wrote:
Change society so the raw truth does not need to be said so as to benefit other outcomes aside from cure (right to treatment) agenda to benefit self-esteem (dignity). It is very fundamental. These rights are not dependent upon nor attached to the reputation of any organization.

8)


Aye, trying to do that. Also you really do need to work on your expression. I can barely tell what you are saying sometimes.



ci
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15 Jul 2011, 5:32 am

I have the same problem with reading your posts. However I tend to keep that to myself. It provides a bit of a challenge but I am up to it.


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15 Jul 2011, 10:17 am

ci wrote:
I have the same problem with reading your posts. However I tend to keep that to myself. It provides a bit of a challenge but I am up to it.


Working on personal deficiencies is always good for me. That sort of politeness where you do not make out someone's problems are a farce as it only causes them more problems in the long run.



ci
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15 Jul 2011, 11:56 am

suit yourself.

http://www.knowledgetransfer.net/dictio ... alysis.htm


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15 Jul 2011, 2:25 pm

ci wrote:
suit yourself.

http://www.knowledgetransfer.net/dictio ... alysis.htm


Apparently you didn't get the whole idea of me wanting you get you to check my results for yourself? The only subjective analysis therefore was you not checking these ideas for yourself. So far you have criticized my methodology without any actual evidence that it was subjective except your own opinion of what constitutes supposition, which I also laid in to a while a go as not related to supposition at all and again it still doesn't avoid the fact that you haven't checked my ideas for yourself.



ci
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15 Jul 2011, 5:20 pm

In several posts you have either said I was calling you a liar when I was not, asking me not to criticize you and have taken things very personally when they have otherwise not been directed at you. This is a civil conversation about a matter that is complex. It's attached to a world view and is individually highly subjective and in other-ways political driven in agenda. We are taking into account a theory of the mind which is imperfect along with the other side issues. What would be nice is a complete lay out of your emotions with certain subjects like being associated with lower functioning individuals and your beliefs of autism and then your emotions with how mainstream portrays it. My suggestion is to allow criticism just the same as there are different books with different opinions. The philosophy you present should be applicable in your life but to grossly suggest it of others the relevant methodology the relating beliefs will be challenged.


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16 Jul 2011, 3:44 am

ci wrote:
In several posts you have either said I was calling you a liar when I was not, asking me not to criticize you and have taken things very personally when they have otherwise not been directed at you. This is a civil conversation about a matter that is complex. It's attached to a world view and is individually highly subjective and in other-ways political driven in agenda. We are taking into account a theory of the mind which is imperfect along with the other side issues. What would be nice is a complete lay out of your emotions with certain subjects like being associated with lower functioning individuals and your beliefs of autism and then your emotions with how mainstream portrays it. My suggestion is to allow criticism just the same as there are different books with different opinions. The philosophy you present should be applicable in your life but to grossly suggest it of others the relevant methodology the relating beliefs will be challenged.


I have not taken them personally at all. I was wondering why you were talking about such things. To be honest saying that what I say is due to supposition really comes down to calling me a liar whther intentional or not. I have laid out some of them and so far they have been challeneged because they don't have scientific tests proving them yet. I feel that's a feeble reason since I said search for yourself these things!