On the Garbage that is the DSM-V

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I consider Asperger's Syndrome to be autism.

I consider Asperger's Syndrome to be autism.[/quote]i agree and that part of why i think the new system will be better and i believe the kinks will work themselves out.they divised the new system to be more inclusive.i think gedrene is hitting the panic button to soon on this one.i thunk the milder cases will still get DXed

Do you only have three symptoms from the DSM-IV then? How many symptoms do you meet in the DSM-V?

Anyway, I explained what the current assumption is, based on existing research. If the criteria fails at that during the clinical trials, I suspect they will alter the criteria to be workable.

i have every symtom of autism except the delay in speech.i was dx over 15 years ago though and havnt taken any online test since then,but im still a patient of the doctor that dx me

I was going to say the same thing, about altering the criteria to be workable. But why are people complaining again? Now I'm confused...

I have enough for a diagnosis of autism (actually more than is needed for that), but diagnosed with AS because I am so articulate.



Because the requirement to meet so many symptoms in the DSM-V criteria seems harder to meet due to requiring a numerically higher number of symptoms. My impression from research is that this is not the case.

Exactly. You just say they are the same but the reasoning is 'because I think so'. Percipi est esse. They are different, because asperger's does come out from the DSM IV criteria.

Asperger's doesn't come across as different from autism. However, creating the diagnosis did mean autistic people who have no speech delays could be diagnosed and receive support, whereas before it was fairly difficult.

I guess what needs to be demonstrated is whether or not the DSM-V criteria serves those "mild cases" who need to be diagnosed. Number of symptoms does not necessarily reflect severity, nor does severity of listed symptoms necessarily reflect total impairment.

It doens't. The system it uses is deficient and portrays some of the characteristics of aspergers the wrong way. For example they say deficiency in motor skills but the fact is that aspergers has most of the time only been about weird motor reactions.

Some aspies appear autistic and some autistics appear normal. That is what they call a spectrum. I wonder if lot of people in my autism groups will fail the ASD criteria because they can have back and forth conversations. My aspies ex could also have them too with people because I have seen him talking to people at work and having conversations with them. I suppose he won't be meeting the new ASD criteria. But he didn't need an AS diagnoses anyway because he had no issues getting and keeping a job and he managed his life well without support. Heck he even got emancipated at age 16 and he did fine on his own in his late teens.

There is also social communication disorder, I wonder if people with that will still get the same help autistic people will get?


I don't care if I will or won't meet the new ASD criteria. I feel I am too mild to meet it because my symptoms aren't disabling enough and I can control them. SCD fits me better but I hope it won't effect my job because I work for a company that is for people with disabilities and they give people with disabilities jobs. I don't know if they would want to re test me to see if I am still "disabled." Well I am willing to get rediagnosed then if that happens I will involve my husband and mother since I don't remember much of my childhood regarding symptoms. I will also make sure to mention the ones I remember no matter how embarrassing they are.
I just hope it won't effect my job if I don't meet the new ASD criteria. But at least my husband won't care if I mooch off him or if I can't ever find a job or if it takes me weeks or months or a few years to get one.

Of course I will still come here if I no longer have autism by 2013 (technically that would mean I was never autistic to begin with). After all I am different than lot of people and grew up with a invisible disability and I do have AS symptoms. I definitely meet more than three in the AS criteria because I have read it in my medical records. I have five and my mom said I sometimes have up to eight of them and that is when I am under stress. I have no clue if that means from A and B or the whole thing since there is 12 total. My psychiatrist didn't really say in his report. He only mentioned two things and that's it, obsessions and failure of friendships. It seemed like he didn't want to list every symptom I met in the criteria.

I notice this new criteria has caused controversial issues and people on the spectrum worrying about how it would effect them because of how mild they are. One of the reasons why I hate criterias, it leaves gray areas and people do fall in the gray. Doctors can keep creating new labels to cover up the gray but it will still create gray areas because there will always be people out there who will always fall into the gray. Impaired by their symptoms but don't have enough for the diagnoses. Doctors might still give them the label for closest match. I wouldn't even call them fakes because being fake implies they are faking their issues and pretending to have them.

Perhaps doctors will still hand out the autism diagnoses to people who don't quite meet it but yet would have met the AS criteria if it were still in use so they can get the help they need.

But that's exactly the problem. They wont recieve the relevant level of support.

Percipi est esse.

I would beg to differ. having a few symptoms rather than all, especially when we consider some of the symptoms are more severe, would have a lot to do with severity. Furthermore the asperger's diagnosis had different symptoms. It had stimming in the DSM IV or its equivalent, but in the new diagnosis it is deficient motor skills that are medically harmful.

What can I say? What I said has been observed clinically and in research. There's very little - if anything - to distinguish "HFA" from "Asperger's Syndrome."

I don't see what you're trying to say with your Latin. I know "esse est percipi" meaning "to be is to be perceived." I assume you're saying "to be perceived is to be" but I don't see what you want that to mean.



Stimming is in the DSM-V:



Since one of the ways autism is impairing is in terms of disorganization and executive function, and this is not in fact part of the diagnostic criteria, and in research it was found that severity of other symptoms did not correlate directly to severity of executive function difficulties, then yes, it is possible for someone to appear to have mild autism but still have more severe impairments than would be expected.

I guess the question is: How many people really have "a few symptoms?" Research I've read points to the DSM-IV criteria for Asperger's being mostly useless and wrong because most people diagnosed with AS actually should be diagnosed with autism. That doesn't sound like most people dxed with AS will only have a few symptoms.

But it will still show as a real diagnoses. They won't know they don't truly have it unless the person with it says so.

But the fact is that they'll be lying about parts of it. The person may have no motor skills issues like the new diagnosis insists they must have or they may have no communication issues but stereotypy and a lack of reciprocity. The fact is that when you lie about the severity that has lots of consequences. Kids who may be able to attend normal classes will be pushed down by being in special school etc. You are ignoring the fact that NTs tailor to tags, not to the individual.

The new diagnosis does not insist that a person must have motor skills issues.

The truth should not be exaggerated just to get a diagnosis according to the new or old criteria.

People who have only scattered symptoms in isolation are probably not on the spectrum at all. In people with AS, multiple of the symptoms go together, because the behaviors are all caused by the same thing in the mind. My lack of understanding of NT ToM causes my behavior to meet all three of the social/communication criteria in the DSM V and all four in the DSM IV. My hyperfocus on everything causes both my special interests and my routines and rituals. Even without my stereotypies and sensory issues, I would have met the DSM V criteria with only two functions, or lack thereof, in my mind causing my autistic behaviors.

Last edited by btbnnyr on 20 Nov 2011, 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.