NO link between ASD's and Planned Violence, and Why.

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The argument is that violent behavior is not required, but also that violent behavior does not exist as part of its definition. Violent behaviors are included in other categories of behaviors, that are not considered autistic. Thus, by definition, they are not autistic, and not connected to what autism is considered to be by consensus.

The point is not that autistics or Aspies cannot be violent, but that they are no more prone to violence than non-autistics. That isn't proven by the DSM, but by studies.

And that is what I'm asking for. What do the studies actually show?

Also for those claiming there is a connection, to back those claims up. If they can. But I think we already know they're not going to be able to.

Some are still either floating around, or keep cropping up. The vast majority here know better.

The thing is, moderators could conceivably just delete all such opinionated posts, but considering recent events and how much misinformation is being spread, many here and on other sites are starting to holler "censorship."

I thought I'd offer them all the opportunity, right here, to go right ahead and speak up, with only one small caveat.

Back it up!

True for behaviors described associated with Asperger's syndrome in the DSMIV-TR, but aggressive behavior is listed as a behavioral symptom of autistic Disorder in the DSMIV-TR, in the associated features section. The word violent or violence also does not appear in the DSMIV-TR criteria or associated features for Anti-Social Personality Disorder; it is also described as aggressive behavior in the criteria for Anti-Social Personality Disorder. Physical injury as a result of aggressive behavior from another individual rises to the level of what is commonly referred to as violence.

https://sites.google.com/site/gavinboll ... for-autism



Self injurious behavior and aggression is controlled in individuals with autistic disorder with these associated behavioral problems, through various methods like medication, ABA, and unfortunately physical restraint in some cases.

Higher percentages of planned violence against others has neither been identified in autistic disorder or Asperger's syndrome. The measures of that are usually derived from criminal offenses of acts of violence; not the type of aggressive behavior or potential of minor injuries to others, that a child with Autistic Disorder with this aggressive behavioral symptom might exhibit on a day to day basis.

There was a sibling on the internet relating aggressive behavior in their brother on the spectrum as an indication that there might be the potential that under the right circumstances that individual might do something that rises to the level of what was recently described in the news. Per the research that exists there is no more potential of that than in any other child that has difficulties with clinically significant aggressive behavioral problems.

I think this is the thing that some people are mixing up; the difference between a behavioral problem with aggression identified in some cases of Autistic Disorder, as opposed to planned violence in either Autistic Disorder, Asperger's Syndrome, or any other ASD.

A description of violent thoughts about others is certainly not unheard of in online autism communities that cater to those with Asperger's syndrome, but there is a great distance that spreads from the thought to the actual action, per a planned act of violence toward another person. Unfortunately, I don't think that some understand that it's generally not a good idea to talk about those kind of thoughts in public forums, no matter how harmless they may be in reality, as others are listening that are not always identified, and those communities are where some gain an impression of what Asperger's or Autism is, in the real world.. The "perceived" anonymity of the internet appears to make some people more comfortable expressing these type of thoughts.

I've come across a number of those comments recently, and so has anyone else that was reading what I was reading. Of course there too have been individuals that were obvious trolls that have come here purposely in the past identifying themselves on the spectrum and stating they were going to do all kind of horrible things, as a kind of fun game for them to get attention . Unfortunately unsuspecting readers, can gain that viewpoint, and associate it with Asperger's whether it is real or not.

On the other hand, statements that are made at times that aggression and difficulties with empathy, are not part of the spectrum, is seen by some as an elitist point of view of "higher functioning" individuals on the spectrum, without full consideration of those that do indeed struggle with substantial difficulties in those areas.

None of these issues are black and white issues, as that is what the term spectrum general identifies.

The most compelling evidence that Asperger's or Autism is not associated with violent crime statistics and crime statistics in general, is in the limited areas where they have been measured and studied. Among a 30 year longitudinal study of 113 individuals diagnosed with Autistic Disorder, Asperger's Syndrome, and PDD NOS the crime convictions were slightly greater than half of what was reported for the general population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21713590

This was a study of outcomes for adult on the spectrum. The crime statistics were considered the good outcome, unfortunately or fortunately depending on what county one might live in, 96% were on disability pensions by average age of 22, and 99 percent remained unmarried. Those were the other two elements of outcomes measured. It was determined that overall poor outcomes were not specific to any of the three disorders measured.

Last edited by aghogday on 23 Dec 2012, 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Did you perhaps make a typo there? Looks like that was a 30 year long study, which actually gives even more weight to it.

Last edited by MrXxx on 24 Dec 2012, 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Okay, what the studies actually show:


Autism Spectrum as a whole


(http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/news/ ... -as-adults)


Asperger's specifically ( looking in a high security psychiatric hospital )



(http://www.jaapl.org/content/34/3/374.full)



(http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream ... 207331.pdf)



(http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... ltext.html)

Yes, I did, and I think I also may have also done that before, as I have been using that study quite a bit lately to identify the low crime statistic. Thanks for pointing that out, as it does give more credibility to the research.

My mom used to get attacked by an autistic child who was only six. He even bit her too. I don't know what else he did to her so mom had to take self defense so she could defend herself against this child. He was never aware of was doing these things and he was none verbal. I was told in my early teens that autistic kids are violent because they don't know how to express themselves properly due to not being able to talk and they are also not aware of doing them so they need to be taught or can be taught how to let teachers know they are mad and stuff without resorting to violence. Then there are some who are not violent at all and wouldn't hurt a fly. I also remember being told not all of them are violent and some don't even express their emotions so they wouldn't act out on it because they don't know how.

But I knew a boy with Asperger;s and he always attacked his mother and other students and attack teachers and that was not due to his autism. He was a bully and he had ODD and he did it for control. He may have had a conduct disorder. Sometimes violence has nothing to do with autism such as shootings.

Perhaps my mother and my teacher were wrong when they told me about autistic kids being violent and perhaps that one autistic boy my mother had as her student, his violence had nothing to do with his autism.

Thank you! Sigh of relief. I'll relax now.

Not used to relaxing, but I think it feels really nice.

She said this about her brother because he was very angry and she perceived that he thought about hitting her but did not on a single occasion. In her anecdote, she related this not-quite-actual-violence to Adam Lanza's spree killing.

I agree. I wasn't suggesting that he actually hit or inured her, in his aggressive behavior. If he hit her that would rise to the level of violent aggression. If it was a result of frustration and rage, that would not likely fall under the category of planned violence.

http://www.watoday.com.au/opinion/my-br ... 2bql1.html

Right. That is a legitmately scary moment, but it is hyperbole for her to compare her brother to Adam Lanza.

There's plenty of anecdotes regarding aggression/violence in individuals with autism -- it's usually confined to families and it's rarely bought to the attention of the authorities, for obvious reasons. There's so many "how to cope with an aggressive autistic child" articles that state it's not a rare occurrence (from parents to professionals alike). Plus papers -- saying that there's no link is misleading.

It's just that it rarely is a crime for the simple reason of no one reporting it.

An autistic child or adult having a meltdown, striking all those around him or her, is still being violent, even if it's directly related to autism.

You just need to watch the documentary, "Make Me Normal" to see the explosive side of autism (it's on YouTube last I checked).

New thing have learned about autism, violence is not part of it so that would mean the violence Jacob did in House Rules was not related to is autism. Emma and others kept claiming Jacob was no way violent and Leo? Explains that he is violent and gives examples like him breaking things and tipping over his high chair he had to be rushes to the hospital.

House Rules isn't a particularly good portrayal of Asperger's to begin with. It's far too stereotypical.

Anecdotal accounts cannot be verified or measured.

All anecdotal evidence such as this proves is that autistics can be capable of violence. In connection with the claim that autism is not the cause of violence, I state this plainly:



All the anecdotal evidence you're referring to here does is support the statement I already made. Just because autism is not the cause of violence, doesn't mean autistics are never capable of violence.

The statement "autism is not the cause" is supported soundly by numerous studies showing that the rate of violence among autistics is no different, and sometimes even lower (concerning certain types of violence), than the general population.