My stance on a cure for autism

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Niall
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16 Dec 2015, 10:38 am

The problem is that as soon as there is a cure, you can bet that neurotypical society will respond by removing what few supports there are and be even less accepting of difference. They will decide that either we take the fix, or live in their society regardless.

The demand for a cure from some autistics could very well backfire on all of us, regardless of the implications for diversity.

No, this is a really bad idea. I flat out oppose research into a cure.

I accept this is a difficult one: either people like me insist others can't get the cure they want, or people who do want the cure impose an even worse situation on those of us who don't. I'm not pretending it's simple, but I know where I stand. We don't need a cure: we need a better society for everyone.

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AJisHere
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17 Dec 2015, 1:56 am

PhoenixFalcon wrote:

I believe that if someone is really and truly suffering from their mental condition, be it autism or anything else, they should be allowed to choose to seek out a cure for it.

Keyword: Choose. Unless the mental condition does not allow them to give consent, the administering of the cure should be consensual.

It should also not be used before any sort of suffering is confirmed. This is why I am opposed to what Autism Speaks is doing by trying to find autism prenatally and aborting the fetus without giving the child any chance to cope. I mean, I'm all for a women's right to choose, but your child having autism is a very bad reason to do it, and crosses into the territory of eugenics.

Pretty much in total agreement with you, for what it's worth.

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Butterfly88
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18 Dec 2015, 3:37 pm

For the most part I agree with you, some people have autism so severe that they will never have a normal life. For those people I do wish we had a cure.

cyberdad
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19 Dec 2015, 6:38 pm

PhoenixFalcon wrote:

I believe that if someone is really and truly suffering from their mental condition, be it autism or anything else, they should be allowed to choose to seek out a cure for it..

What an individual chooses to do to treat their symptoms (however severe) is their business or the parents/carers

I'm not aware anybody (or group) outside their immediate family decides/allows a person with ASD to do anything?

Spiderpig
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19 Dec 2015, 7:26 pm

What would a "cure" be like?

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AJisHere
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19 Dec 2015, 11:57 pm

Butterfly88 wrote:

For the most part I agree with you, some people have autism so severe that they will never have a normal life. For those people I do wish we had a cure.

I do see this response in these sorts of discussions. I'm interested in what people would think about a cure for those with less severe cases. Because as someone who falls into that category, I'd be interested in this hypothetical cure.

Some people have the attitude of:

Pieplup wrote:

If I were to undergo a "Miracle cure" wouldn't I change everything about myself? I am not willing to do that.

... and that's fine. But I would likely be willing to do so.

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Yes, I have autism. No, it isn't "part of me". Yes, I hate my autism. No, I don't hate myself.

Niall
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20 Dec 2015, 10:54 am

AJisHere wrote:

Pieplup wrote:

If I were to undergo a "Miracle cure" wouldn't I change everything about myself? I am not willing to do that.

... and that's fine. But I would likely be willing to do so.

The trouble is, as I've already pointed out, you would then be effectively imposing it on the rest of us, because the neurotypicals would tell us to take the fix or have all supports and patience for difference removed anyway.

Varelse
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20 Dec 2015, 3:44 pm

Niall wrote:

AJisHere wrote:

Pieplup wrote:

If I were to undergo a "Miracle cure" wouldn't I change everything about myself? I am not willing to do that.

... and that's fine. But I would likely be willing to do so.

Yes, that has already happened with other conditions, such as schizophrenia, PTSD, anxiety, depression, ADHD, and mood disorders such as bipolar.

There are meds prescribed for managing these "incurable conditions" and if you have concerns about the side effects or want to try something else, well, you can be overruled.

AJisHere
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21 Dec 2015, 1:34 am

Niall wrote:

On what basis do you make that claim? Even if I were to accept this as the likely outcome, the ethical question of denying this hypothetical cure to those in greatest need of something like that would be a big one. Then, the fact remains that the cure would not be the problem, the manner it which it is used would be.

That scenario would be possible. I don't think it's nearly as likely as you claim, or that rejecting the idea based on that possible scenario is reasonable.

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Omerik
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21 Dec 2015, 2:05 am

I'm not suffering from Autism. Well, not directly, that is. I've always maintained that my problem is the relation between me and the world. I'm okay, it's okay, but we don't fit one another. My psychotherapist also agrees with me that my problems are very much not direct, but a result of me trying to communicate with another sort being. He always hates it when I say I'm not normal, because he hates the term "normal", I guess because as a therapist if he applies it, it makes him biased against his patients.

But he actually asks me instead of telling me how I feel, and just tries to guide me and help me understand my feelings and thoughts. He's more of a companion than someone who cures.

Niall
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21 Dec 2015, 7:04 am

AJisHere wrote:

Niall wrote:

Simple. In every other case where they see a chemical fix, they will do their level best to impose it. I see no reason to even suspect we'll be treated any differently.

There is already research to identify autism in general in utero. Given that much of the world now doesn't make a distinction between AS and other forms of autism, even if you accept it's okay to terminate our silent cousins (and I do not accept this!) how long do you think it will be before they start making sure people like us don't exist.

We don't need a cure. We need everyone else to stop acting like sh!ts!

Varelse
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21 Dec 2015, 11:49 am

Niall wrote:

AJisHere wrote:

Niall wrote:

Simple. In every other case where they see a chemical fix, they will do their level best to impose it. I see no reason to even suspect we'll be treated any differently.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-con ... -bill/2646

Niall
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21 Dec 2015, 11:53 am

Varelse wrote:

Niall wrote:

AJisHere wrote:

Niall wrote:

Simple. In every other case where they see a chemical fix, they will do their level best to impose it. I see no reason to even suspect we'll be treated any differently.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-con ... -bill/2646

I'm not going to wade through some proposed foreign legislation.

What is the point you are trying to make?

ASPartOfMe
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21 Dec 2015, 12:47 pm

This hypothetical ethical dilemma drives me nuts.

I do expect if a cure is found there will be plenty of peer, family pressure to take it. More importantly I expect a refusal to take the cure to be labeled in the DSM as a criteria of mental illness. I expect most employers will not hire you if you refuse the cure, and I expect insurance companies will triple your rates and if they can drop you all together if you refuse the cure. As others have mentioned the goverment will likely drop benifits. Since legal proof you are Autistic would probably require an official diagnosis, if people think there is too much self diagnosis now imagine what it will be like in this situation.

On the other hand the core basis of the Neurodiversity movement is not having others decide how we feel about our autism and bieng allowed to make to decisions about our lives based on that. If you are not pro choice in this matter can you really call yourself Neurodiversity movement supporter? I don't think so. I blame a lot of pro cure sentiment on internalized ableism. But this is just as bad as NT's ablesplaining my desire not to take a cure as denial, not having "real autism" etc.

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Niall
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21 Dec 2015, 12:57 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

If you are not pro choice in this matter can you really call yourself Neurodiversity movement supporter? I don't think so.

I do, and for reasons we've discussed, and you've mentioned: we would not be given a meaningful "choice".

lostonearth35
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21 Dec 2015, 1:04 pm

Being on the spectrum is not my problem. It is the people who are ignorant and cruel and believe whatever the media tells them that are the problem. They are the ones who need to change, not me. I want acceptance, not a cure for something that is not even a disease.

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