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DonJuan
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27 Aug 2020, 2:51 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Why is it that when one of us is murdered people ask forgiveness and understanding for the killer?


Good morals, human compassion, human decency. The recognition that no one is perfect, that mental illness is much more common now than it was in the past, that life is stressful, and that stress alters people's brain in ways that cause them to do things they wouldn't otherwise do. When mentally ill people commit crimes they aren't always fully culpable for their actions.

Quote:
With no thought given to the autistic person at all?


What makes you think no one feels bad for the autistic persons?

Quote:
Its one thing when people who are openly hateful are saying things like this but its a little awkward getting told I have no right to live by people who support BLM and walk around with rainbow flags.


I've never had anyone tell me I didn't have a right to live. I've heard people who lack morals say babies don't have a right to live but never anything about autistic people.


I hope the next time a White police officer kills a black man you let people know that the officer deserves sympathy and understanding. I'm sure that will work out well...

What makes me think no one feels bad for autistic people?, no one ever mentions sympathy for them when they are killed, only the parent. Who should we support, the victim of a crime or the perpetrator. When my sisters house was broken into I know who I felt bad for.



Fnord
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27 Aug 2020, 3:03 pm

DonJuan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Why is it that when one of us is murdered people ask forgiveness and understanding for the killer? With no thought given to the autistic person at all? Its one thing when people who are openly hateful are saying things like this but its a little awkward getting told I have no right to live...
Please provide links to news articles describing these events.  Thank you.
Sorry I couldn't do so when I made this post, the rules wouldn't let me.
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expre ... ged-murder
This is just the latest example
https://twitter.com/thecarolemalone/sta ... 2689463298
This is peoples reacting, since they disable comments on the article
Thanks again.  This happens even to children who are NOT autistic -- the mother becomes overwhelmed and sees no other way out than to asphyxiate, drown, poison, shoot, smother, or stab her children (autistic or not), and the general opinion seems to focus most of the sympathy on the mother, and less on the children.

Please provide links to news articles describing these events. Thank you. Or you know you could be like the other guy and make stuff up that works too. Last time I checked people still down about Cassie Anthony...
Here are a few...

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/07/ ... -children/

https://www.wonderslist.com/10-mothers- ... heir-kids/

https://www.thoughtco.com/mothers-who-k ... ren-971322

Sad ... very, very sad ...



emotrtkey
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27 Aug 2020, 3:21 pm

DonJuan wrote:
I hope the next time a White police officer kills a black man you let people know that the officer deserves sympathy and understanding. I'm sure that will work out well...


Everyone who kills anyone in questionable circumstances deserves sympathy regardless of race. Statistically, white people are more likely to be killed by police but color shouldn't make a difference. All lives matter. Being an officer is a hard job where they can be seriously injured or killed by any suspect they deal with. They have to make tough calls all the time and can't be expected to get it right every time. Once or twice a year an unarmed suspect, usually a white person, will die an unfortunate death because an officer felt his life was in danger. Good people don't deserve to go to prison because someone didn't agree with their decision.

What if you had a meltdown while you were driving that caused an accident that killed an innocent black kid and angry people were demanding you'd be charged with murder and executed? I'm sure you'd want sympathy.

Quote:
What makes me think no one feels bad for autistic people?, no one ever mentions sympathy for them when they are killed, only the parent. Who should we support, the victim of a crime or the perpetrator. When my sisters house was broken into I know who I felt bad for.


That's probably because they assume everyone cares for the autistic child killed. They express sympathy for the mother because they know there are people without compassion who will rush to judge her without considering the circumstances.



vermontsavant
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27 Aug 2020, 3:29 pm

DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Please provide links to news articles describing these events. Thank you. Or you know you could be like the other guy and make stuff up that works too. Last time I checked people still down about Cassie Anthony...
When you say making stuff up,your insulting me I think."Filicide" as you said is at epidemic proportions,there so common most don't make the national news.That's true about the Pennsylvania woman who lynched her three kids with dog leashes and Evelyn Boswell in Tennessee.Mitchelle Blair who put her two kids in the freezer.I'm not making anything up,you can research these cases on youtube or google.And you will find many more,and please research these cases before you accuse me of fake news,lying or making things up,I find that very rude :roll:


Just because you think something doesn't actually make it true, sorry, seeing things happen on the news is not the same as statistics, sorry if I hurt your feelings, but this is something that should be taught in school.
What have I said that is false,I don't think anything,I study true crime quite a bit!You have an accusation of falsity;Make it,what have I said that's false?This better be good! :|


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vermontsavant
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27 Aug 2020, 3:56 pm

I just checked Wikipedia and wiki's stat's on this issue were informed by the FBI.

On average about 450 filicides each year in the US,42% fathers and 58% were mothers.

So my estimate of about 200 mothers kill there children on average each year was correct.

As far as whether moms who kill there children get more sympathy than there child victims?From the sentencing hearing's I have watched on youtube,the mothers get little sympathy if any,it is true there are rare exceptions but as a rule killer moms get little compassion.This only goes by what I have seen and read,there is no internet statistic that measures in numbers the sympathy criminals may or may not get.


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ASPartOfMe
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27 Aug 2020, 4:40 pm

DonJuan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Why is it that when one of us is murdered people ask forgiveness and understanding for the killer? With no thought given to the autistic person at all? Its one thing when people who are openly hateful are saying things like this but its a little awkward getting told I have no right to live...
Please provide links to news articles describing these events.  Thank you.


Sorry I couldn't do so when I made this post, the rules wouldn't let me.
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expre ... ged-murder
This is just the latest example
https://twitter.com/thecarolemalone/sta ... 2689463298
This is peoples reacting, since they disable comments on the article

I do not know the general public opinion on this case but the newspaper article was totally ableist. The autistic wasn't a person but only a nightmare for the mom, nothing more


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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity.

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


DonJuan
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27 Aug 2020, 6:09 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Please provide links to news articles describing these events. Thank you. Or you know you could be like the other guy and make stuff up that works too. Last time I checked people still down about Cassie Anthony...
When you say making stuff up,your insulting me I think."Filicide" as you said is at epidemic proportions,there so common most don't make the national news.That's true about the Pennsylvania woman who lynched her three kids with dog leashes and Evelyn Boswell in Tennessee.Mitchelle Blair who put her two kids in the freezer.I'm not making anything up,you can research these cases on youtube or google.And you will find many more,and please research these cases before you accuse me of fake news,lying or making things up,I find that very rude :roll:


Just because you think something doesn't actually make it true, sorry, seeing things happen on the news is not the same as statistics, sorry if I hurt your feelings, but this is something that should be taught in school.
What have I said that is false,I don't think anything,I study true crime quite a bit!You have an accusation of falsity;Make it,what have I said that's false?This better be good! :|


You said there is a filicide epidemic, and that it is more common these days, I said you had no proof and are going off news articles, rather than facts and statistic, the fact that you study "true crime" doesn't really have any relevance. I do not understand why a grown man has difficulty understanding this, sorry if I am at fault for confusing you.



DonJuan
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27 Aug 2020, 6:17 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
I hope the next time a White police officer kills a black man you let people know that the officer deserves sympathy and understanding. I'm sure that will work out well...


emotrtkey wrote:
Everyone who kills anyone in questionable circumstances deserves sympathy regardless of race. Statistically, white people are more likely to be killed by police but color shouldn't make a difference. All lives matter.


Like I said, say this sort of thing out in public and see what kind of response you get, let me know after you do, for people my age, going around saying "all lives matter" means you are a nazi.



vermontsavant
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28 Aug 2020, 2:53 am

DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Please provide links to news articles describing these events. Thank you. Or you know you could be like the other guy and make stuff up that works too. Last time I checked people still down about Cassie Anthony...
When you say making stuff up,your insulting me I think."Filicide" as you said is at epidemic proportions,there so common most don't make the national news.That's true about the Pennsylvania woman who lynched her three kids with dog leashes and Evelyn Boswell in Tennessee.Mitchelle Blair who put her two kids in the freezer.I'm not making anything up,you can research these cases on youtube or google.And you will find many more,and please research these cases before you accuse me of fake news,lying or making things up,I find that very rude :roll:


Just because you think something doesn't actually make it true, sorry, seeing things happen on the news is not the same as statistics, sorry if I hurt your feelings, but this is something that should be taught in school.
What have I said that is false,I don't think anything,I study true crime quite a bit!You have an accusation of falsity;Make it,what have I said that's false?This better be good! :|


You said there is a filicide epidemic, and that it is more common these days, I said you had no proof and are going off news articles, rather than facts and statistic, the fact that you study "true crime" doesn't really have any relevance. I do not understand why a grown man has difficulty understanding this, sorry if I am at fault for confusing you.


Did you read my post on filicide on wikipedia,that proved on average 450 parents a year kill there children,have you read anything I've posted.Your rude and wrong and if you call me false again I'll report you


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The_Walrus
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28 Aug 2020, 5:55 am

[Mod]

This is an extremely emotional topic.

It is true that filicide is more common than people realise. It is also true that autistic children are disproportionately likely to be the victims of filicide.

Please do remember that everyone here is against filicide, and that they are a human like you are. Please treat each other with respect and decency, and aim to educate and inform rather than denigrate and insult.



vermontsavant
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28 Aug 2020, 6:14 am

The_Walrus wrote:
[Mod]

This is an extremely emotional topic.

It is true that filicide is more common than people realise. It is also true that autistic children are disproportionately likely to be the victims of filicide.

Please do remember that everyone here is against filicide, and that they are a human like you are. Please treat each other with respect and decency, and aim to educate and inform rather than denigrate and insult.

Thank you Walrus for your action

May I add,don't call people liar's unless you can back it up by fact.


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vermontsavant
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28 Aug 2020, 10:24 am

This just in from Texas via USA TODAY/Nation

Krystal Lewandowski 34, after previously reporting her 4 year old daughter missing,has admitted to cutting her daughter's throat and putting her in a garbage can,then reporting her missing.This happened in Fort Worth,TX

Her daughter Czara had just turned 4,Krystal Lewandowski has been charged with capital murder.


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emotrtkey
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28 Aug 2020, 6:43 pm

DonJuan wrote:
Like I said, say this sort of thing out in public and see what kind of response you get, let me know after you do, for people my age, going around saying "all lives matter" means you are a nazi.


Martin Luther King Jr dreamed of a colorblind society where everyone is treated equally regardless of skin color. I share his dream. I'm glad I don't live in a racist neighborhood where people obsess over skin color, promote one race over another, and call people who promote racial equality a nazi for not being a racist.



DonJuan
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28 Aug 2020, 11:14 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Please provide links to news articles describing these events. Thank you. Or you know you could be like the other guy and make stuff up that works too. Last time I checked people still down about Cassie Anthony...
When you say making stuff up,your insulting me I think."Filicide" as you said is at epidemic proportions,there so common most don't make the national news.That's true about the Pennsylvania woman who lynched her three kids with dog leashes and Evelyn Boswell in Tennessee.Mitchelle Blair who put her two kids in the freezer.I'm not making anything up,you can research these cases on youtube or google.And you will find many more,and please research these cases before you accuse me of fake news,lying or making things up,I find that very rude :roll:


Just because you think something doesn't actually make it true, sorry, seeing things happen on the news is not the same as statistics, sorry if I hurt your feelings, but this is something that should be taught in school.
What have I said that is false,I don't think anything,I study true crime quite a bit!You have an accusation of falsity;Make it,what have I said that's false?This better be good! :|


You said there is a filicide epidemic, and that it is more common these days, I said you had no proof and are going off news articles, rather than facts and statistic, the fact that you study "true crime" doesn't really have any relevance. I do not understand why a grown man has difficulty understanding this, sorry if I am at fault for confusing you.


Did you read my post on filicide on wikipedia,that proved on average 450 parents a year kill there children,have you read anything I've posted.Your rude and wrong and if you call me false again I'll report you

Yes, my point was you never proved it is higher now than in other times, you have completely misunderstood my point over and over. I don't know how to get that through to you.



DonJuan
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28 Aug 2020, 11:15 pm

emotrtkey wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Like I said, say this sort of thing out in public and see what kind of response you get, let me know after you do, for people my age, going around saying "all lives matter" means you are a nazi.


Martin Luther King Jr dreamed of a colorblind society where everyone is treated equally regardless of skin color. I share his dream. I'm glad I don't live in a racist neighborhood where people obsess over skin color, promote one race over another, and call people who promote racial equality a nazi for not being a racist.


Well I do, sorry.



vermontsavant
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29 Aug 2020, 3:20 am

DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
DonJuan wrote:
Please provide links to news articles describing these events. Thank you. Or you know you could be like the other guy and make stuff up that works too. Last time I checked people still down about Cassie Anthony...
When you say making stuff up,your insulting me I think."Filicide" as you said is at epidemic proportions,there so common most don't make the national news.That's true about the Pennsylvania woman who lynched her three kids with dog leashes and Evelyn Boswell in Tennessee.Mitchelle Blair who put her two kids in the freezer.I'm not making anything up,you can research these cases on youtube or google.And you will find many more,and please research these cases before you accuse me of fake news,lying or making things up,I find that very rude :roll:


Just because you think something doesn't actually make it true, sorry, seeing things happen on the news is not the same as statistics, sorry if I hurt your feelings, but this is something that should be taught in school.
What have I said that is false,I don't think anything,I study true crime quite a bit!You have an accusation of falsity;Make it,what have I said that's false?This better be good! :|


You said there is a filicide epidemic, and that it is more common these days, I said you had no proof and are going off news articles, rather than facts and statistic, the fact that you study "true crime" doesn't really have any relevance. I do not understand why a grown man has difficulty understanding this, sorry if I am at fault for confusing you.


Did you read my post on filicide on wikipedia,that proved on average 450 parents a year kill there children,have you read anything I've posted.Your rude and wrong and if you call me false again I'll report you

Yes, my point was you never proved it is higher now than in other times, you have completely misunderstood my point over and over. I don't know how to get that through to you.


If that's your only concern,I would say that that was never a crucial part of my argument,it seems like more parents kill there children today than in the past decades,I don't know that for sure,it feels like it's on the rise.Filicide being on the rise wasn't the crux of my statement.

The crux of my statement was that this happens way to often and is at epidemic proportions,and also that the parents or really mothers for the purpose of this discussion don't really get much sympathy from society,the courts and definitely not the prison population.

I don't recall there being this much filicide in say the 90's but I also don't recall filicide being on the rise as any platform of any statement I was trying to make.If that's all you were concerned about I don't understand why you got all hot and bothered over this.

EDIT
I have found nothing online that conclusively states whether or whether not filicide is on the rise one way or another.There is no doubt that it talked about in the news and media more in the past 20 years.

That being said,the point more germane for most people on WP is do (autistic children in particular)children who are murdered get less sympathy then there parents or parent that killed them.


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