Need educated on non-binary

ha ha ha.... I had an admission interview for a day surgery recently, and the registrar asked how I would like to be addressed. "Well, I would LIKE to be addressed as Your Royal Highness the Duchess of Hightower, but I will answer to (first name)." Got a chuckle out of the lady.
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A finger in every pie.
I was born female but I've never really thought of myself as male or female. I imprinted on my father, my brother, and my male cousin, and spent very little time with other little girls. Regardless I liked some things that were considered girly (dolls, dresses, hair ribbons), and I liked some things that were considered boyish.
From about age 3, I've been aware that I feel like a conscious brain almost entirely dissociated from my body. My body doesn't feel like it belongs to me. I don't mean my female body. I mean, my arms and legs and feet and all of me. It's like whoever assembled me as a person forgot one of the steps. I've never felt like my mind-body are integrated or connected. It feels like all I am is a brain, and my body is totally irrelevant baggage that I have to lug around with me.
On my first day of Kindergarten I was spanked and humiliated for playing with a train set which was considered a boys' toy. The teacher said I should have known because it was blue. Even then in 1973 I thought she must be high or something, to say something so ridiculous. I had no interest in playing "House" with the girls, which is what the teacher expected. I did whatever I wanted to do whether it was considered a girls' or boys' activity. Gender wasn't pertinent to my self-concept, whether I wore dresses or did boyish things.
I don't know what the big deal is in society. In my opinion dresses aren't distinctly feminine. Men can wear dresses and it's sexist to say they can't. My best friend is a transwoman who wears dresses and makeup, and paints his (her) nails. In history men wore dresses and were associated with pink (a variant of red / blood). Women were associated with light blue (the heavenly sky, angels). None of the gender norms ever meant much to me, and they weren't really pushed on me either. In the 70s and 80s the world wasn't as sexist as we like to think it was.
I call myself female and I look female. I wear dresses for sensory reasons and I date men. But, my brain has no gender at all. It's kind of an existential feeling where my body doesn't exist, and everything's just an illusion anyway. I'm far too cerebral to worry about things like social constructs or gender expectations in myself or others.
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I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles
Dresses, on the other hand, are uncomfortable (based on my role in a Monty Python sketch), being tailored for a "typical" woman's physique -- too tight across the shoulders and around the waist, and too loose around the chest and hips. If I was to wear tailored dresses in public, I would look like an old bald-headed man in a dress. Even Scottish kilts look weird on me.
But if I was to wear a choir robe in public, people would expect me to sing hymns.
Cargo shorts and a Hawai'ian shirt are best for me, anyway.
The thing is, gender identity is a lot more than your interests/the gender roles you "fit in" and disliking/liking your physical sex. There is a neurological aspect to it.
I've always thought of being transgender/nonbinary as something similar to being intersex, but instead of it affecting the development of your primary/secondary sex characteristics it affects your neurological development. Intersex people can have physical presentations that are more female/male, or more ambiguous/undeveloped. Transgender/nonbinary people also have neurological presentations that can cause us to identify either as more female/male, or sometimes neither of those (maybe like the more ambiguous/undeveloped intersex presentation).
I don't know why those two aren't compared more because being trans/nonbinary does often have a biological (neurological and genetic) aspect to it, despite the fact most people don't get that it does.
I agree. I think there's definitely a neurobiological component to how we feel in relation to gender.
According to statistics it's very common for autistic people to feel more gender-neutral or nonbinary than the NT population. I believe autism also has a neurobiological basis so it stands to reason that it could be related to gender. Maybe we're predisposed to reject social norms in all their manifestations including gender expectations, or maybe we're just too smart to fall for all that propaganda. I think we see through it, and define ourselves as individuals rather than an extension of mass culture.

_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles
Isabella, what you said makes sense. I’ve struggled with gender identity my entire life, I thought I was transgender for a long time because I didn’t fit in with the girls, and I didn’t want to look like what most girls look like. I like being androgynous and I honestly prefer when people call me by my name, and I hate when people say, “Hey girl.” Or call me a lady.. But that’s all based on gender norms, stereotypes, and societies expectations and thoughts on women...
I've always thought of being transgender/nonbinary as something similar to being intersex, but instead of it affecting the development of your primary/secondary sex characteristics it affects your neurological development. Intersex people can have physical presentations that are more female/male, or more ambiguous/undeveloped. Transgender/nonbinary people also have neurological presentations that can cause us to identify either as more female/male, or sometimes neither of those (maybe like the more ambiguous/undeveloped intersex presentation).
I don't know why those two aren't compared more because being trans/nonbinary does often have a biological (neurological and genetic) aspect to it, despite the fact most people don't get that it does.
Thank you. Do you have any articles that explain the science behind this?
Same. But the categories shouldn't exist in the first place, so I don't bother worrying about them. I identify as female because in my estimation female can be whatever I want it to be. I have a female body, female hormones, I gave birth, and I'm a mother ... so the word works for me, but my brain innately identifies as "human" instead of a subcategory.
_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles
funeralxempire
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,533
Location: Right over your left shoulder
There’s been so many labels created that even those who it’s meant for don’t even know anymore.
The key is while your welcome to identify as whatever you wish try not to get angry at others who many not be aware of what it means, as some unfortunately do.
I’m just confused, because I am a masculine woman who hides most “feminine” aspects of my body, is very masculine, dates woman, has masculine mannerisms, is androgynous, only has guy friends.. and I am still a woman. I don’t neatly fit into either category that society has made for men and women.. but that’s society’s fault. There’s no reason I can’t still be a woman and be exactly how I am, just because I don’t fit those little boxes that were made for both gender. It seems to me that people don’t fit into these social constructs, and call themselves non binary because of it. By that I’d be non binary.. but I’m not. I was born a woman.. and I am a woman.. regardless of me not fitting into defined stereotypes for my gender..
If you don't identify with it, why worry about it?
I think you're right that as a category it allows people who don't feel they fit well within either binary category to have another way to view and describe themselves.
As Hero points out, it might be influenced by how one's brain develops.
Various categories of gender non-conforming people and other animals show stereotypical changes in brain physiology in certain regions. These studies in animals have only ever used sexual behaviour as the issue but with people have examined both along gender identity and sexual orientation. The overall conclusion was that certain regions of the brain were more like what was expected in the opposite sex whereas that type of development was not seen in the controls.
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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
Same. But the categories shouldn't exist in the first place, so I don't bother worrying about them. I identify as female because in my estimation female can be whatever I want it to be. I have a female body, female hormones, I gave birth, and I'm a mother ... so the word works for me, but my brain innately identifies as "human" instead of a subcategory.
This is exactly what I was describing!
There’s been so many labels created that even those who it’s meant for don’t even know anymore.
The key is while your welcome to identify as whatever you wish try not to get angry at others who many not be aware of what it means, as some unfortunately do.
I’m just confused, because I am a masculine woman who hides most “feminine” aspects of my body, is very masculine, dates woman, has masculine mannerisms, is androgynous, only has guy friends.. and I am still a woman. I don’t neatly fit into either category that society has made for men and women.. but that’s society’s fault. There’s no reason I can’t still be a woman and be exactly how I am, just because I don’t fit those little boxes that were made for both gender. It seems to me that people don’t fit into these social constructs, and call themselves non binary because of it. By that I’d be non binary.. but I’m not. I was born a woman.. and I am a woman.. regardless of me not fitting into defined stereotypes for my gender..
If you don't identify with it, why worry about it?
I think you're right that as a category it allows people who don't feel they fit well within either binary category to have another way to view and describe themselves.
As Hero points out, it might be influenced by how one's brain develops.
Various categories of gender non-conforming people and other animals show stereotypical changes in brain physiology in certain regions. These studies in animals have only ever used sexual behaviour as the issue but with people have examined both along gender identity and sexual orientation. The overall conclusion was that certain regions of the brain were more like what was expected in the opposite sex whereas that type of development was not seen in the controls.
There is no “male” brain or “female” brain.
I've known many sorts of people in my time.
I've known "masculine" women, and have liked them. I've known "feminine" men, and have liked them. As long as they don't overdo it as a defense mechanism; that's when it can get irritating.
I identify as a man, and do like sports. But I also suck at carpentry. I've known many "feminine" women who like carpentry and things like that. I have zero interest in it. But I do like literature (which I thought was a "sissy" interest when I was a child).
I say: if somebody says they're "non-binary," I have to accept it. It would take some taking used to----to use the "they" pronouns----but I must make the effort.
If somebody is a woman and is masculine---so what. That's the way she is. As long as she doesn't try to screw with me, she's fine.
funeralxempire
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,533
Location: Right over your left shoulder
There’s been so many labels created that even those who it’s meant for don’t even know anymore.
The key is while your welcome to identify as whatever you wish try not to get angry at others who many not be aware of what it means, as some unfortunately do.
I’m just confused, because I am a masculine woman who hides most “feminine” aspects of my body, is very masculine, dates woman, has masculine mannerisms, is androgynous, only has guy friends.. and I am still a woman. I don’t neatly fit into either category that society has made for men and women.. but that’s society’s fault. There’s no reason I can’t still be a woman and be exactly how I am, just because I don’t fit those little boxes that were made for both gender. It seems to me that people don’t fit into these social constructs, and call themselves non binary because of it. By that I’d be non binary.. but I’m not. I was born a woman.. and I am a woman.. regardless of me not fitting into defined stereotypes for my gender..
If you don't identify with it, why worry about it?
I think you're right that as a category it allows people who don't feel they fit well within either binary category to have another way to view and describe themselves.
As Hero points out, it might be influenced by how one's brain develops.
Various categories of gender non-conforming people and other animals show stereotypical changes in brain physiology in certain regions. These studies in animals have only ever used sexual behaviour as the issue but with people have examined both along gender identity and sexual orientation. The overall conclusion was that certain regions of the brain were more like what was expected in the opposite sex whereas that type of development was not seen in the controls.
There is no “male” brain or “female” brain.
There are physiological differences, specifically the size of certain regions of the brain. Denying reality won't alter reality.
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
Dresses, on the other hand, are uncomfortable (based on my role in a Monty Python sketch), being tailored for a "typical" woman's physique -- too tight across the shoulders and around the waist, and too loose around the chest and hips. If I was to wear tailored dresses in public, I would look like an old bald-headed man in a dress. Even Scottish kilts look weird on me.
But if I was to wear a choir robe in public, people would expect me to sing hymns.
Cargo shorts and a Hawai'ian shirt are best for me, anyway.
Wait a moment.. you were in a Monty Python sketch????
There’s been so many labels created that even those who it’s meant for don’t even know anymore.
The key is while your welcome to identify as whatever you wish try not to get angry at others who many not be aware of what it means, as some unfortunately do.
I’m just confused, because I am a masculine woman who hides most “feminine” aspects of my body, is very masculine, dates woman, has masculine mannerisms, is androgynous, only has guy friends.. and I am still a woman. I don’t neatly fit into either category that society has made for men and women.. but that’s society’s fault. There’s no reason I can’t still be a woman and be exactly how I am, just because I don’t fit those little boxes that were made for both gender. It seems to me that people don’t fit into these social constructs, and call themselves non binary because of it. By that I’d be non binary.. but I’m not. I was born a woman.. and I am a woman.. regardless of me not fitting into defined stereotypes for my gender..
If you don't identify with it, why worry about it?
I think you're right that as a category it allows people who don't feel they fit well within either binary category to have another way to view and describe themselves.
As Hero points out, it might be influenced by how one's brain develops.
Various categories of gender non-conforming people and other animals show stereotypical changes in brain physiology in certain regions. These studies in animals have only ever used sexual behaviour as the issue but with people have examined both along gender identity and sexual orientation. The overall conclusion was that certain regions of the brain were more like what was expected in the opposite sex whereas that type of development was not seen in the controls.
There is no “male” brain or “female” brain.
There are physiological differences, specifically the size of certain regions of the brain. Denying reality won't alter reality.
I’m sorry, the correct response is, there are very very minimal differences, and Male and Female brains have been scientifically proven to be more alike than they are different. Here is one article out of tons on the internet.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases ... 032521.php
Last edited by Brainiac42 on 30 Jun 2021, 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.