Page 2 of 21 [ 323 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 21  Next

zendell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,174
Location: Austin, TX

07 Mar 2008, 2:38 pm

Chimchar wrote:
Has anyone ever seen ABC news a few minutes ago? The scientists claimed to prove that the vaccines are connected with the disorder. They disproved that connection a week ago. Now they came up and say that vaccines cause autism?

What the hell is going on?!


No one has proved anything either way. There are government studies that weren't able to find a link between thimerosal and autism and independent studies that were able to find a link. It's the same with everything else. Philip Morris created a research organization that did hundreds of studies and none of them were able to find a link between cigarettes and lung cancer. Other scientists found links and now it's considered proven that cigarettes cause cancer. It's the same with aspartame. Studies performed by the companies that make it couldn't find any problems with it. Independent researchers found it causes brain damage. The results of studies conducted by the company that makes a product or the government that mandates it often conflict with the results of studies conducted by independent researchers which leads to controversy and confusion.



Mage
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,054

07 Mar 2008, 3:14 pm

I have to go with what others are saying, and don't listen to the media for information. The Lancet is a science journal that has studies about every other month or so on autism, and nearly all their studies are about how vaccines and autism have no link, the physical traits of autism (variations on the amydala among others) and genes connected with autism. No scientist who is up on his research will say there is any link between autism and vaccines, so just ignore ABC. The one thing they are good for is telling you which celebrity is back in rehab.



TLPG
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 693

07 Mar 2008, 5:48 pm

zendell wrote:
Genetic disorders don't increase 300% in one decade.


They do if the diagnostic criteria is changed! Or rather they increase their visibility by that percentage factor!



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

07 Mar 2008, 5:56 pm

TLPG wrote:
zendell wrote:
Genetic disorders don't increase 300% in one decade.


They do if the diagnostic criteria is changed! Or rather they increase their visibility by that percentage factor!

Yeah, but some people don't understand that diagnoses tend to increase when something is added to the diagnostic manuals.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


TLPG
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 693

07 Mar 2008, 5:59 pm

Orwell wrote:
TLPG wrote:
zendell wrote:
Genetic disorders don't increase 300% in one decade.


They do if the diagnostic criteria is changed! Or rather they increase their visibility by that percentage factor!

Yeah, but some people don't understand that diagnoses tend to increase when something is added to the diagnostic manuals.


I know, Orwell, but sometimes the fact still needs to be metaphorically rammed down their throats! (Please excuse the aggression!)



Sedaka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,597
Location: In the recesses of my mind

07 Mar 2008, 6:21 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
The one that I read about suggested (not actually explained in the article.. gg AS) that it was actually the fact that a girl had some sort of sensitivity towards multiple vaccinations or something similar. She developed symptoms SIMILAR to (that couldn't be described as anything other than) autism. So it didn't actually prove that autism was derived from vaccinations.


this is more similar to what i'm thinking... that people already with autism are more suseptible to things going wrong with vaccines... if there is even a correlation


_________________
Neuroscience PhD student

got free science papers?

www.pubmed.gov
www.sciencedirect.com
http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl


sartresue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Age: 71
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,313
Location: The Castle of Shock and Awe-tism

07 Mar 2008, 6:22 pm

TLPG wrote:

They do if the diagnostic criteria is changed! Or rather they increase their visibility by that percentage factor!


A vex on vaccines topic

Why is this so difficult for people to understand? :? We always have to find a smoking needle, to find a cause for an effect. :?


_________________
Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind

Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory

NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo


Sedaka
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,597
Location: In the recesses of my mind

07 Mar 2008, 6:25 pm

zendell wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
so if they stopped using those vaccines containing the mercury preservatives back in 2001.... why is autism STILL on the increase?


1. There is no proof that autism rates are increasing. Even if rates were increasing, it still wouldn't rule out mercury as one of the causes. It would just mean other non-mercury causes were increasing.

2. The study this is based on looked at autism rates in 3 year olds. They found that autism increased 333% during the past 12 years. The reason autism increased in 3 year olds, based on the results of scientific studies, is because children are being diagnosed earlier. This can't possibly be used to rule out mercury as a cause.

3. It is illogical to claim that thimerosal isn't involved because autism is increasing and then turn around and claim that autism is soley caused by genetics. Genetic disorders don't increase 300% in one decade. If autism is genetic, and therefore it doesn't increase, then this study is meaningless because the increase would be due to more cases being diagnosed and nothing to do with thimerosal.

2ukenkerl wrote:
Yeah, AND, when I was a little kid, they had mercurachrome!! ! It apparently isn't sold anymore, and many say it, like the name implies, contains mercury! But kids got lots of scrapes, etc.... and mercurachrome was one of the things often used to disinfect them! So WHY didn't I see autistic kids on every corner?


Totally irrelevent. Unless they were giving massive doses of mercurachrome to 1 year old or younger babies, the information you provided is meaningless. No one believes that exposing a 5 year old kid to a small amount of mercury will cause him to suddenly regress into autism. Also, no one believes that mercury causes autism in every person exposed to it.


im not saying they really are increasing.... just throwing that back cause the whole vaccine issues seems to be centered around an "increase"

i personally just think our criteria for DXing is changing

edit: and as i just said above in another post... if there is a link with autism and vaccines, i think it's due to people ALREADY HAVING autism... being susceptible to the vaccines which could make preexisting things inflammatory or people who would be very mildly autistic (probably not to where they'd be DXed... ) might exhibit stronger traits ect.... like it's a synergistic effect


_________________
Neuroscience PhD student

got free science papers?

www.pubmed.gov
www.sciencedirect.com
http://highwire.stanford.edu/lists/freeart.dtl


Smelena
Cure Neurotypicals Now!
Cure Neurotypicals Now!

User avatar

Joined: 1 Apr 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,950
Location: Australia

08 Mar 2008, 12:03 am

I have 2 Aspie sons.

I am currently NT.

But I am having my flu vaccine at work next week.

I may be Aspie next week! 8)

So if I seem more intelligent next week, you'll know why! :lol:

Helen



zendell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,174
Location: Austin, TX

08 Mar 2008, 1:13 am

TLPG wrote:
zendell wrote:
Genetic disorders don't increase 300% in one decade.


They do if the diagnostic criteria is changed! Or rather they increase their visibility by that percentage factor!


So you admit that that number of children diagnosed with autism has increased due to a change in the diagnostic criteria. Yet you used this as evidence that thimerosal doesn't cause autism. IMO, that is very dishonest because autism diagnoses could increase regardless of whether thimerosal causes autism due to broadened diagnostic criteria and increased visibility.



Last edited by zendell on 08 Mar 2008, 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

zendell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,174
Location: Austin, TX

08 Mar 2008, 1:25 am

Autism rates dropped sharply, by 35%, after thimerosal removed from vaccines

Not everyone agrees that autism rates are still increasing after thimerosal was removed from vaccines. According to an article in the peer-reviewed Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, "since mercury was removed from childhood vaccines, the alarming increase in reported rates of autism and other neurological disorders (NDs) in children not only stopped, but actually dropped sharply – by as much as 35%."

"Using the government’s own databases, independent researchers analyzed reports of childhood NDs, including autism, before and after removal of mercury-based preservatives."

In California, reported autism rates hit a high of 800 in May 2003 and, based on increased recognizition of autism, should have hit 1,000 by the beginning of 2006. Instead, the autism rate went down to only 620, a decrease of 22%, and a decrease from projections of 35%.

http://www.aapsonline.org/press/nr-03-02-2006.php



TLPG
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 693

08 Mar 2008, 6:04 am

zendell wrote:
TLPG wrote:
zendell wrote:
Genetic disorders don't increase 300% in one decade.


They do if the diagnostic criteria is changed! Or rather they increase their visibility by that percentage factor!


So you admit that that number of children diagnosed with autism has increased due to a change in the diagnostic criteria. Yet you used this as evidence that thimerosal doesn't cause autism. IMO, that is very dishonest because autism diagnoses could increase regardless of whether thimerosal causes autism due to broadened diagnostic criteria and increased visibility.


And yet YOU claim the increase IS due to thiomersal in part! THAT is dishonest - and so is that follow up post because the real reason why the Californian stats dropped is because ASD diagnosed people left the state! The reality is that across the whole of the US (not just one state) the amount of new cases has NOT declined. It has continued to rise - as more and more people get DXed as the quacks who were ignoring the DSM-IV (and there were a lot of them) were weeded out and pulled into line.

Trying to contrast my view with a view that actually matches it instead of contrasting it is highly suspicious to say the least!



Pepperfire
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 408

08 Mar 2008, 10:09 am

Chimchar wrote:
Has anyone ever seen ABC news a few minutes ago? The scientists claimed to prove that the vaccines are connected with the disorder. They disproved that connection a week ago. Now they came up and say that vaccines cause autism?

What the hell is going on?!


Nobody's made the connection yet between Autism Speaks and ABC news????



Pepperfire
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 408

08 Mar 2008, 10:18 am

You know, it occurs to me. If I were the parent of one of those kids in the AS commercials, and was given the option between believing that my genes had caused my kid to be like that and blaming the Government for forcing me to vaccinate my child, and I lived in the States. I'd be all over the vaccine argument... After all, if someone is to blame, I've someone to sue.

How dare we high functioning, able to speak for ourselves, maybe even pretending to be autistic cause we don't look autistic Aspies dare to suggest that the Government isn't to blame and remove the opportunity for Government paid health care.

Anyway... just a thought.



alex
Developer
Developer

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,224
Location: Beverly Hills, CA

08 Mar 2008, 11:04 am

I find it troubling that the same people who argued that the number of autism cases was increasing because of vaccines (correlation somehow indicates causation now? umm. no.) turn around and immediately say the opposite just because it happens to conflict with their theory in this case.

I find it annoying that unscientific people are ok with science as long as it can be used to fuel their conspiracy theories but reject anything scientific that clearly sheds doubts on their views. If you're not going to be scientific, then ignore science altogether. That's basically what you're doing anyway!


_________________
I'm Alex Plank, the founder of Wrong Planet. Follow me (Alex Plank) on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/alexplank.bsky.social


beau99
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Nov 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,406
Location: PHX

08 Mar 2008, 2:18 pm

Pepperfire wrote:

Nobody's made the connection yet between Autism Speaks and ABC news????

There is none.

Perhaps you meant NBC?


_________________
Agender person.

Twitter: http://twitter.com/agenderstar