Anti-cure Cowardice?

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as for the cowerdace of anti cure, I have never sawn a leg off myself and I don't think I am a coward for not trying it this afternoon.

Of course you are. Why are you afraid of being an amputee? How do you know that's not a better way to be? </sarcasm>

DeaconBlues wrote:

Well, you'd get the good parking spaces at the mall....

</doubledog sarcasm>

Dave, those can be dangerous words, dude. One reason why so many Asperger and Autistic kids go undiagnosed is because people think what comes out of the mouths of parents is unreliable. Doctors, teachers, professionals question and doubt what they're saying and the kids lose out on time that they could be in intervention. Something to think about.

Sorry if my last post was strong. Didn't mean to sound hard. My wife is reading "The Autism Sourcebook." It's written by the mother of a regressive Autistic. Here's what she says and this account has been noted thousands and thousands of times by other parents. I'd never seen this passage until my wife showed me after my post this morning (above). We could have written this ourselves. It's long so I'll paraphrase. Quote:

"In the first seventeen months of life, Jake hit every developmental milestone: he crawled, he walked, and he talked. He was within the age-appropriate weight and height percentiles. by all accounts, he was a typical child. And then, Franklin and I watched as our once active and talkative toddler developed into a lethargic and silent little boy. It was as if, one by one, all of the circuit breakers in his brain were clicking off.

Something was affecting Jake's overall development. His coordination was off. He couldn't keep his balance while running or going down the slide. His behavior changed. Jake no longer showed any interest in playing with other children, he hardly even played with toys. Apart from turning light switches on and off opening and closing all the doors in the house, his favorite activity was lying on the floor and staring. he also began to have full-blown, horrific tantrums that looked and sounded like nothing I'd ever seen, comple with shrieking and sobbing that cause him to hyperventilate. "

It goes on and on to describe his decline and changes. This is what I'm talking about. Okay, that's my point for now. Sorry for typos.

Ah the bolded part explains where I got the idea of the LFA DX! Thanks for the correction, Anbuend! And now that I think of it, in your case it probably IS better to have a general Autism DX rather than a specific part of the Spectrum - what with the issues you have that I was alluding to.

Sorry to read about your health problems! Get well soon!

LMAO NewportBeachDude... with regard to eyewitnesses, ask a cop, particularly detective grade and up, or a prosecuting attorney. Eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable, because memory is so fluid. Interestingly, Aspie's seem to have more accurate recall "on average" than NT's. A large number of us seem to have photographic or near photographic memories, but they do fade with time, and age. Unfortunately.

Then there you have it.

I don't equate the eye witness of someone seeing a 10 sec. car crash or the mug of a robber they've never seen before, to a parent watching their child since birth change over time. And, let's not forget their medical records that document those changes to boot. No comparison.

But, that's okay. There's a theme that runs rampant with almost all parents dealing with Autism and it is, "Why didn't anyone listen to us sooner?" A parent knows the difference between a normal functioning two year old vs. one that headbangs, drools, won't eat, won't sleep and stairs at spinning tops all day. And, they know when that difference/change started happening. The preschools know it, too. The relatives know, too. The friends know, too. The church knows, too. The playgroup knows it, too. Everybody that kid comes into contact with frequently can see those changes, not just the parents. Everybody we know saw it. So, if our eyewitness doesn't count, then the eyewitness of probably 200 other people doesn't either.

You can't argue with parents who have walked the walk.

I especially like people who harp about their views being ignored or invalidated, turning around and doing the same damn thing to other people . . .



It doesn't matter which side of the issue you are on, but comments like that help NO ONE.

You are talking specifically about CDD right? Regression? I remember reading up on that for the first time and thinking it was one of the most horrible things I'd ever heard of, and I did a senior seminar on Nazi Germany... (got a B+, we were given our grade and the final exam. Offered the chance to raise our grade by taking it. The first question was "Adolf Hitler had a great impact on German society. Discuss 50%. There were two more questions I didn't even look at, I said B is good with me and left).

I agree 100%, no one can put themselves in place of a parent who is going through something, not even someone who's been through a similar experience. All you can do is offer support. I also agree that too many doctors won't treat autism as seriously as they should, in large part because I think they don't understand it and are uncomfortable with the subject. It's something for a "psychiatrist" to deal with, or if your LUCKY a neurologist. Pediatricians and GP's won't touch it. Partially because of fear of a malpractice suit. I hate to say it, but that's a realistic fear on their part. Still. A child is in need and isn't getting help, a parent is in need and not getting support...

The only thing I can say is the parent has to stand up and demand a referral to a psychiatrist who's qualified to deal with autism. I've never had any problem telling doctor's what I expect, but I'm finding I'm 'unusual' in that... People seem to be afraid of their doctors or something. I have no idea why that is, unless they are intimidated, which I'm not. My doctor is a smart man, which is why I go there, but I don't think he's any smarter than me. If I think I need to see someone I tell him. If I think I need something I tell him. Period. If whatever we do, or what he gives me doesn't clear up the problem I tell him that too. We had the same thing when my wife was having miscarriages, after the fourth one the doctor actually sat there.... in front of her but talking to me and said, "If she were my wife or daughter or someone I had control over I would simply make sure she never gets pregnant again, she can't carry to term...". Now THAT'S arrogant. I looked at him, controlled my urge to remove his larynx and said, "That's not acceptable, there's a reason, I want to know why, refer us to someone." and he did... We got something like $40,000 worth of genetics and neonatal work done without a whimper from the HMO. After all, I had a referral.

I mean it's certainly what I've told people here to do. Get the referral and see this doctor, or go to Community Mental Health and get them to cover this, or that...

Yeah the schools didn't trust our eyewitness accounts about our oldest son, "he's too normal to have Asperger's" we heard time after time... except from the principal of the magnet school for kids with behavior problems. He said right from the outset, "the problem is he LOOKS too normal..." not that he IS too normal... We tried telling then about the toe walking, the echolalia, the eye avoidance, MOST of which he no longer did after the early intervention program he went to... but if you knew what to look for, you could see his gait was awkward because he ALWAYS make sure his toes touched the ground first, before the heel. He was STILL toe walking at 11-12 he just had learned to hide it REALLY well. I don't want to go all Bill Clinton on you but, "I feel your pain".

TLPG, sorry. I don't have the exact quotes; They had me delete everything, wipe it all out, but then decided to write an even longer article on me. They have them, apparently, because they're holding the entire thing over my head. I think they're using it to justify to themselves what they did, the time they sent a big old group of over half a dozen(something like eight) people using Dr. Who villain names to harass me. One even tried to get me to kill myself. I think they're keeping it around so that if I go to police over it, they can claim provocation, or to force me to stay silent.

The way they said it, after what they'd said? They said it like an insult, they said it in a way that was degrading. They said it because they wanted to make her look stupid, and to look lesser. Remember the woman I spoke about before, Amanda Baggs? She was diagnosed as LFA, but she's not inherently unintelligent. It's just a blase and offensive stereotype, based on IQ, statistics, and not on people, but a diagnosis.

The problem with ASDs are, they all don't just fit into nice, neat categories. People with the same diagnosis can be radically different, like an Aspie who can't work due to sensory issues, and an Aspie with a long career. It's so easy to blandly determine diagnoses on paper, and a different one altogether to do it by proper examinations, which cover off things like their difficulties, strengths, and more. It's part of why I reccomend against making Autism include a diagnostic criteria basing off of IQs and so on. Besides, I seem to recall having seen a discussion where you argued that IQ tests don't accurately represent those with ASDs...

If Amanda is then labelled HFA, won't this mean she won't get the help she's needed? I don't know how your goverment's system works, but she won't get the same things for her needs, will she?

Still, there needs to be clarification. I've seen time and time again, problems either caused or exacerbated by misunderstandings when referring to those on the spectrum.

No one in particular: I've given my opinion many times, but here it goes again. Are your rights to state you don't want to be cured more valued than those who do want to be cured? Not everyone likes being autistic, and they deserve the right to become normal, if they want to. By saying no to a cure, by preventing it from ever becoming more than a discussion, is to deny the rights you have to others, and when that has happened, you've created inequality. I understand where you're coming from, I really do. I know exactly what you say, and I respect your right to choose. But those who do want to be cured deserve to have the right to choose as well.

*Disclaimer: I am responding to a very rude and offensive post, posted by Inventor. If an Admin or Mod doesn't like this post, please blank it, and send my post, along with anything you want to say to me, in a PM. I have been personally offended by the views expressed, and am making use of my rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Again, if an Admin or Mod objects to this post, please feel free to blank it and tell me why you object. Thank you for your time.*

Inventor, there is no excuse for the sick and twisted things you posted. Are the only Aspies who matter the ones who don't want a cure?
I hope that others forgive you for those idiotic accusations, blind hatred, racism against white people, and lack of any common decency towards NTs, and for Aspies who don't agree with you, because I don't. For someone who's unsure of whether or not they have AS, you sure seem to do a lot of inexcusable things, justified by your AS.

By preventing those who want a cure from getting a cure, you infringe on their rights, the rights you don't want infringed, and commit the crime that you accuse others of. You don't want a cure, so no one gets a cure. It's a mockery of the rights you purport to value, to speak for those who want a cure, and fight a cure in spite of them. Where are their rights? Why is this statement always ignored? Do you think of yourself as a hero, crushing the wayward aspies under your heel? Is your fear, hatred, selfishness, or whatever it is that drives you, is it more important than other people? More important than your fellow Aspies?

Inventor, you've invented quite a story. I recall another story. It was quite a frightening tale, and one I don't want to see in my lifetime. But if we fail to learn from the mistakes of our past, we are doomed to repeat them in the future.

"[T]he basic motivation [of the Holocaust] was purely ideological, rooted in an illusionary world of Nazi imagination, where an international Jewish conspiracy to control the world was opposed to a parallel Aryan quest. No genocide to date had been based so completely on myths, on hallucinations, on abstract, nonpragmatic ideology—which was then executed by very rational, pragmatic means."

A lot like your grand theory. Of course, this comaprison can hardly be complained against; After all, being a white(would you prefer the term cracker or ghost?) pro-cure guy like myself, you've called me a KKK Klansmen, inbred, a eugenicist, a biblethumper, an NT(despite my AS), an ape, a loser, a troll, even insane. You've even expressed that I think anyone who disagrees with me is guilty of something, besides all the innuendo to the effect that I'm bigoted, unable to think for myself, and other, even more disgusting filth and bile.

You're a self-styled prophet, mad with delusions about predicting the future, yet cannot even discern the reaction that the utter FILTH that you posted would get. I didn't know that Wrong Planet allowed hate-speech against NTs, personal attacks on members, and a complete lack of any decency, feigned or otherwise, towards people who want a cure.

Discrimination of any kind is bad; it doesn't matter whose side you're representing.

It's not as if people who don't wish for a "cure" somehow have a veto power over others who do wish for one. And I don't think anybody's "rights to state" their opinions and preferences should be limited, on any side of the discussion. The more thoroughly the implications are explored, the more brightly the light of awareness is shone into every corner, the better the result for everyone, on the spectrum or not.

I do, however, have a problem with this: elan_i is proposing to add a new category to the DSM, his so-called "Autistic Personality Disorder." To restate:

• Don't know that they are fundamentally different from normal people
• Don't feel the need to look for help
• Don't think that there is anything wrong with them
• Might even class themselves as better than normal people in some ways

In other words, "the very fact that you consider yourself healthy is proof that you are sick." This veers dangerously close to suppression of human rights, for mine.

See. Who was right in your case, you? You and your wife. You two were the first line of defense, excellent expert witnesses, but the school would rather believe that your attractive, intelligent child couldn't possibly have a disorder. I think Asperger kids get the worst of it because many are intelligent, good looking kids and some people don't want to believe what comes out of the mouths of their parents who see these kids struggle through school and society. Again, people need to start listening to the parents.



Okay. LOL.

Uh, that's what I've been trying to say. Thanks.

Not to mention denial of self.