Whats with all the Autism Speaks hate.
Sweetleaf
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Age: 36
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Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
28 Oct 2012, 11:07 pm
dalurker wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Negative symptoms of autism I have, not going to waste my time trying to prove it to the likes of you.
Then you can't cite them as a reason why negative symptoms in general shouldn't be a motivation for cure.
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Also what special abilities? who do you think I am trying to fool and what would be the point fool people about what? Also I've already said if a cure exists I simply don't want it, not that i should have any say in if someone else who does want it should get it or not. Also never said anyone was forcing it on me just that I wouldn't want it cured if you cant wrap your head around that its not my fault.
I'm not going to repeat this for you. You should know what I'm referring to. If you are willing to allow others to have cure, why do you attack me like anytime I say something on here?
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I don't think your issue is lack of intelligence it seems to be more a lack of maturity and a lot of hate for anyone you disagree with. Maybe you should mellow out and quit being a jerk did you ever think of that?
Vitriol towards ideological enemies isn't immature or unnatural. Kindness doesn't stop irrational tyranny. I won't mellow out over fundamental issues of living and livelihood, while some are trying to stop progress by screaming genocide and crackpot theories. I shouldn't be held to a higher standard of niceness while backward ideas are promoted with self-righteousness and hostility. I don't see anything promising in your alternative of pessimism, perpetuation of failure, and misery veneration.
I prefer to treat the worst of my symptoms, but the autism in itself is a differnce in neurology so I want to best work with that not try to become neurotypical or wait around hoping for a cure that will make me more normal in the hopes it will bring me material success easily.
Also I haven't attacked you, you're the one being a bit of a jerk towards anyone who's disagreed with you.
And I really don't get that last bit....I don't think I am doing anything to stop anyones progress, at least not in the sense you describe.
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28 Oct 2012, 11:32 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
Also I haven't attacked you, you're the one being a bit of a jerk towards anyone who's disagreed with you.
Don't deny it. You continually complain of the things I say on here. I don't care if you think I'm a jerk for confronting crazy and condescending nonsense from those who are serious about keep others down.
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And I really don't get that last bit....I don't think I am doing anything to stop anyones progress, at least not in the sense you describe.
Look. Some want things to improve, instead of stagnating. There are ambitions of individuals out there, who are not content to live only to enable their carers to enhance their reputations through being charitable.
Sweetleaf
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
28 Oct 2012, 11:42 pm
dalurker wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Also I haven't attacked you, you're the one being a bit of a jerk towards anyone who's disagreed with you.
Don't deny it. You continually complain of the things I say on here. I don't care if you think I'm a jerk for confronting crazy and condescending nonsense from those who are serious about keep others down.
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And I really don't get that last bit....I don't think I am doing anything to stop anyones progress, at least not in the sense you describe.
Look. Some want things to improve, instead of stagnating. There are ambitions of individuals out there, who are not content to live only to enable their carers to enhance their reputations through being charitable.
Disagreeing with your opinion and how you go about expressing it is not the same thing as attacking....Also I guess I just don't see a cure as the only means of progress,
_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.
29 Oct 2012, 12:48 am
nostromo wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Being autistic is something that influences every single element of who a person is - from the interests we have, the ethical systems we use, the way we view the world, and the way we live our lives. As such, autism is a part of who we are.
To "cure" someone of autism would be to take away the person they are, and replace them with someone else.
To "cure" someone of autism would be to take away the person they are, and replace them with someone else.
You (and AFF) are quite mistaken, if a person was cured of Autism they would be the same person but without the skill deficits.
If you're not autistic you just don't get it. There's a lot more to it than just skill deficits.
02 Nov 2012, 11:35 am
androbot2084 wrote:
Autistic people do not lack communication skills. Neurotypicals do not like autistics because they don't want their beliefs challenged. if autistics could not challenge their beliefs then autistics would not be a threat to them.
Although ignornce and intolerance from the Neurotypicals is one of the most significant challenges we face, there are undeniable social deficits in Autistic people. I can confirm that personally.
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Jane
02 Nov 2012, 4:30 pm
KenM wrote:
The issue I see with autism speaks is I have never seen them promote any type of acceptance for people with any kind of autism. They are all about fixing what is not broken.
Would you class being unable to speak as "not broken"?
I would call that a broken ability to communicate using speech.
02 Nov 2012, 6:52 pm
nostromo wrote:
KenM wrote:
The issue I see with autism speaks is I have never seen them promote any type of acceptance for people with any kind of autism. They are all about fixing what is not broken.
Would you class being unable to speak as "not broken"?
I would call that a broken ability to communicate using speech.
I understand autism covers a broad range. I feel there should be treatments and search for cures for the people with severe autism.
But autism speaks seems to label everyone with autism as someone that must be cured. I have never seen them promote acceptance for people with high functioning autism or AS. Autism speaks thinks every person with autism needs to be fixed, cured and that is a very dangerous way of thinking.
They would not get away with it if they said everyone of a certain skin color or sexual perfference needed to be cured. But they get away with it because of the stigma autism brings to people.
03 Nov 2012, 2:03 am
KenM wrote:
nostromo wrote:
KenM wrote:
The issue I see with autism speaks is I have never seen them promote any type of acceptance for people with any kind of autism. They are all about fixing what is not broken.
Would you class being unable to speak as "not broken"?
I would call that a broken ability to communicate using speech.
I understand autism covers a broad range. I feel there should be treatments and search for cures for the people with severe autism.
But autism speaks seems to label everyone with autism as someone that must be cured. I have never seen them promote acceptance for people with high functioning autism or AS. Autism speaks thinks every person with autism needs to be fixed, cured and that is a very dangerous way of thinking.
They would not get away with it if they said everyone of a certain skin color or sexual perfference needed to be cured. But they get away with it because of the stigma autism brings to people.
This is how Autism speaks describes the autism spectrum on their website for over a million of their supporters to see, or anyone else that wishes to understand how the organization views the spectrum as one where each person is unique, as well as a diverse spectrum of needs and supports:
http://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism
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What Does It Mean to Be “On the Spectrum”?
Each individual with autism is unique. Many of those on the autism spectrum have exceptional abilities in visual skills, music and academic skills. About 40 percent have average to above average intellectual abilities. Indeed, many persons on the spectrum take deserved pride in their distinctive abilities and “atypical” ways of viewing the world. Others with autism have significant disability and are unable to live independently. About 25 percent of individuals with ASD are nonverbal but can learn to communicate using other means. Autism Speaks’ mission is to improve the lives of all those on the autism spectrum. For some, this means the development and delivery of more effective treatments that can address significant challenges in communication and physical health. For others, it means increasing acceptance, respect and support.
Each individual with autism is unique. Many of those on the autism spectrum have exceptional abilities in visual skills, music and academic skills. About 40 percent have average to above average intellectual abilities. Indeed, many persons on the spectrum take deserved pride in their distinctive abilities and “atypical” ways of viewing the world. Others with autism have significant disability and are unable to live independently. About 25 percent of individuals with ASD are nonverbal but can learn to communicate using other means. Autism Speaks’ mission is to improve the lives of all those on the autism spectrum. For some, this means the development and delivery of more effective treatments that can address significant challenges in communication and physical health. For others, it means increasing acceptance, respect and support.
03 Nov 2012, 2:47 am
I know that is what they say. But I have not once seen them act like that. Every time they hold a event on radio or TV, they just seem to paint all people with autism as people that need to be cured. They don't promote that there are many types of autism and lots of people with autism can lead fullfilling lives without being fixed or cured.
03 Nov 2012, 3:00 am
dalurker wrote:
I really don't care what you high-functioning narcissists think of cure. You don't need it. Others do. Nobody who lacks communication skills hates cure. Period.
You want to lie to pregnant women, implying their children will be geniuses, when you know well that only a small percent of autistics will reach that success. You know you have to push misleading information like that, as you are aware of how awful and vile the disability involved really is.
First of all
Stop calling us f*****g narcissists. Do you even know what the hell that word means?
World English Dictionary
narcissism or narcism (ˈnɑːsɪˌsɪzəm, ˈnɑːˌsɪzəm)
— n
1. an exceptional interest in or admiration for oneself, esp one's physical appearance
2. sexual satisfaction derived from contemplation of one's own physical or mental endowments
I don't find myself all that incredibly interesting, and I sure as hell don't sit here masturbating to pictures(mental or real) of myself.
Also, as for "lying to the parents," No, that's just stupid. It's not a lie, and you equate success with becoming famous or acquiring lots of money, which has f**k all to do with intelligence. You need to learn what the hell words mean before you use them.
03 Nov 2012, 3:25 am
dalurker wrote:
DerStadtschutz wrote:
So you're telling me, that as a person with aspergers, you have ABSOLUTELY ZERO good traits? You have NOTHING going for you whatsoever? Like, you're not able to do math better or ANYTHING? You have not ONE single advantage? I find that extremely hard to believe. I also think it's ridiculous that you think anyone who doesn't have aspergers(or doesn't have it as 'bad' as you)simply has zero difficulties in life. You're extremely deluded, buddy.
I don't know. Whatever achievements I have, I WORKED for them. I don't get by and succeed on "gifts" of intelligence. My IQ is only 107. I'm not one of you. What do others' difficulties have to do with this. Please, stay on topic.
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I'm not saying you're not impaired whatsoever. We all are... and by we ALL are, I mean all humans have weaknesses. Aspergers is what gives me my photographic memory. It's what makes me remember pictures and events in great detail as though i'm literally watching a tape of the event. It's what's kept me from ever having to study/read my notes a day in my life. Surely you have SOMETHING positive going for you.
No, not all of us are impaired. Some are strong. Some are weak. That is reality. I don't have photographic memory. I do not have what you have. I actually have to study. A lot. I read slowly and painstakingly. I don't have squat. I better question my diagnosis now. You have too much advantage to realize the difficulty endured by others.
I have too much advantage to realize the difficulty others endure... That makes no sense. First of all, I don't have to be impaired to see impairment. If that were the case, nobody would be able to perceive that someone is blind or deaf, or have any other impairment, for that matter. Secondly, everybody has strengths and weaknesses. I'm not sure what your strengths are because all you do is complain about what you can't do, but you're certainly good at complaining. Try doing something different. It might be beneficial.
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Look, the reason you believe you're such an inferior human specimen is because most people who aren't autistic think negatively of autism, and they've probably made fun of/ridiculed you. You've been painted as a burden, and you simply accepted it. That's wrong. People are all different. Different shouldn't be viewed as a burden.
During the vast majority of my life, nobody has really known I'm autistic in particular. There is no self-fulfilling prophesy crap going on. I didn't do well with others cause I don't have the interaction skills, and I have difficulty learning to do things. I am a burden. I live with my mother at 28 and seldom have an income, cause I'm terrible at working. It is not wrong. What I am saying is right. What you are saying is all wrong. There is no such thing as different.
lol, no such thing as different? Seriously? Are you a troll?
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Would you care to explain yourself? You say "no, it's not a different way, it's a lack of a way." A lack of a way to do what exactly? What is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for you to do that "everybody else" can do? Please explain because you're not making sense. I'm capable of doing anything an NT can do, but depending on what it is, it might take me a little longer to get the hang of it. I'll learn it quickly, as I've always been a fast learner, but actually executing it is a different story. But I can still DO it. You need to stop playing the victim card and just get out and do sh**.
To do a particular task. Lose the attitude. You wouldn't come to me with that attitude if we weren't behind screens. You have no impairments. You are not disabled. And you sadistically like my disability. You can't be a fast learner, and need longer time to get the hang of it. You just contradicted yourself. If you can do it, then you can execute it. Victim card? Why don't you tell me this to my face?
What attitude? I am who I am on screen AND off screen, and how am I supposed to tell it to your face when you're probably at least hundreds of miles away? I don't like your disability, and yes you absolutely CAN be a fast learner yet take a little while to get the hang of it... You yourself said you had terrible motor skills. I do too. Just because I can understand the concept of what needs to be done, that doesn't mean it's easy for me to execute it.
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You mentioned wanting to be free to pursue your own ambitions... Well what's stopping you right now? Just go f**** do them if it's such a big deal to you. Also, a lot of autistic people seem to be extremely lonely, so having a caretaker around doesn't sound like such a terrible idea. And honestly, for a lot of us, our spouse takes the place of the caretaker. Are you trying to tell me that you'd hate to live with a wife who loves you and helps take care of the things you have difficulties with? Is that an invasion of privacy? I would rather have someone help take care of me than be told I have to take some BS "medicine" or just suffer and rot in a ditch.
Impairment is stopping me by ruining the effectiveness of my efforts. I can't just do them. Hello. I think all autistics deserve real relationships. What is so sacrosanct of NTs making them entitled to relationships they may not even deserve? Spouses don't enter marriage to administer care. Especially when there is no wealth to compensate for and facilitate such an arrangement. You obviously don't have difficulty with things. So I don't know what you're talking of. I will never have a relationship. I have to live with that. I will remain as alone as I am now.
well, with your sh***y attitude, I'm sure you most likely WILL remain alone. Nobody likes a whiner. You act like marriage is a purely business transaction. I wouldn't marry someone I didn't love. And if I love someone I love the person. If that means she needs a little extra help with certain things, then fine, as long as I'm not the only one doing everything.
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You need to stop thinking that just because you're different, you're automatically inferior in every single way. This is what I'm talking about... You're a perfect example of what the "different is bad" mentality produces. You sound like you hate yourself, like you view yourself as the lowest possible human on earth, so you go around going "oh woe is me, i hate my life." I don't particularly enjoy a lot of aspects of my life either, but it's not because I think I'm some lowly piece of sh**. I don't care what other people think about me. Other people don't know me.
I seriously think you're trying to make me angry. I don't think someone could be so out of touch, while missing the point completely. I think you care a lot of what others think of you. You wouldn't be here saying so much of yourself if you didn't.
I'm here telling you about myself because you're under the delusion that I somehow have absolutely NO impairments just because I'm intelligent. Because you're here playing the victim card and acting all "oh woe is me, my life is terrible, and nobody else can possibly have it worse than I." Since you suggested that I have no impairments, I decided to tell you about the very real impairments that I DO have, in hopes that you might see that you're not the only one with difficulties, and maybe, JUST MAYBE, you would be motivated to do something other than piss and moan about your situation.
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I think your problem is you're autistic, and you want so desperately to fit in an NT world, and that simply isn't going to happen. You can't fit a square peg into a round hole. You need to learn to accept that. Stop lamenting over how not NT you are, and learn to develop the strengths you DO have. Maybe you don't believe you have any because that's what you've been told your whole life, I don't know, but if so, you need to forget about all the people who've told you that. Do your own thing. Live up to your own standard, not whatever someone else told you to do.
There is no NT world. It belongs to everyone. Who are you to designate it as someone else's? Then portray yourselves as virtuous protectors of a group outside of it, while concealing the misery that occurs within your own group which allows the elite of that group to live high off the hog, getting the success they want and their choice of activities, while the majority of the group lives in deprivation of those privileges? I'm not trying to be NT. I want what you have. I think it belongs to me. I have no strengths. Nobody had to tell me I lack strengths. I know through trying that I'm impaired.
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And for the love of Thoth, STOP VIEWING ME AS YOUR ENEMY!
Why do you have to yell at me to convince me that you're not an enemy? I refuse to accept you as my master. I will not obey.
...I don't want to be your master... And I'm "yelling" at you to stop viewing me as your enemy because I'm not your enemy. If I was your enemy I'd be agreeing with you and calling you a loser or something, but that's not who I am. I don't know why the hell you think I am. It seems to me like you just want to wallow in your own self pity, and you want others to come along and see you wallowing in that pity and add more pitty to the puddle or magically snap their fingers and "fix" you.
Look, dude... Nobody is going to just come and fix you. Even if there is a cure, you won't simply be entitled to getting it by being autistic, and I imagine it won't be cheap. So if you think you need "fixed" to make any money, then you're screwed either way. They're not going to give you medication/surgery/whatever the hell on credit and then let you pay it back once you become "normal." You are what you are, and you have to deal with it like everybody else.
And for the record, i wasn't saying anybody owns the damn world, but I call it an "nt world" in the same way that women used to refer to being part of the workforce or a certain field as a "man's world." Most people are NT, or most people at least seem to agree on their rules, and the entire world isn't going to change to accommodate you completely. So we need to either work on making the world more accommodating, or we need to figure out what our strengths are, develop them, and USE them. Sitting there complaining how you got dealt a sh***y hand in life isn't going to get you anywhere. The sooner you realize that, the better off you're going to be.
If you honestly think my objective is to anger you, well whatever, you're entitled to think whatever you want regardless of how wrong it is. Good day...
dalurker wrote:
Living can't be sustained without production.
Ah, so THAT'S why my cat gets up every morning, puts on a suit and tie, and goes to work... Thanks for clearing that up for me, bud.
03 Nov 2012, 4:31 am
KenM wrote:
I know that is what they say. But I have not once seen them act like that. Every time they hold a event on radio or TV, they just seem to paint all people with autism as people that need to be cured. They don't promote that there are many types of autism and lots of people with autism can lead fullfilling lives without being fixed or cured.
Most everyone that supports the Autism Speaks organization accesses the website where autism speaks fully describes the spectrum. PSA's and fundraising events are not usually used as educational tools of detail for any described disorder or disease. They are most often intended to appeal to emotion to motivate people to support the missions of the organizations.
That's not likely going to happen if the PSA's and events illustrate a condition where lots of people with the condition lead fulfilling lives without a need for remediation of symptoms or struggles associated with the condition. And this is not the evidenced reality for most people on the spectrum, as 80% of those identified as professionally diagnosed rely on families for support, and 90% do not find steady full time employment.
Autism Speaks mission is focused on helping the people that struggle with difficulties associated with the spectrum. The organization has identified that some people don't agree about where they direct their focus, but this is where the greatest needs of those on the spectrum exists, for those identified as diagnosed, in meeting the mission and goals of Autism Speaks.
The goal of greater acceptance by others and providing job opportunities is perhaps on of the most difficult goals, because it requires a restructuring of the infrastructure of society, as well as influencing basic human nature. The goal of meeting needs associated with acceptance is for those that lead independent lives on the spectrum, and also for those that do not achieve these same goals in life, and require assistance from others over the course of a lifetime, for the most basic of self care needs.
The opportunity for greater acceptance cannot possibly be enhanced without greater awareness of the diversity of the spectrum, and the issues of those that lead fulfilling independent lives are not the type of issues that can be described in a PSA. It requires a website with space to provide detailed information and proper context, as that is the most likely source for anyone to obtain that type of complexity of information. A source of information like Tony Atwood's books and website, may provide a more comfortable focus of support for some on the spectrum. Autism Speaks is a relative small player of all the available sources of support for the diversity of people on the spectrum.
The links below provide information from Tony Atwood outside of the DSM guidelines into the experiences of actual people diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome from his clinical experience, with over 2000 people diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome over the course of 20 years, that some have been better able to relate to in identifying their personal place on the spectrum. If you haven't come across it before I think it is worth checking out. There is also a website called the AutismHangout that doesn't offer a great volume of opportunity for communication between people on the spectrum for personal support like this website, but is a source of valuable reference materials from Tony Atwood for people that identify with a diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome.
http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=719
http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=917:girls-and-women-who-have-aspergers-syndrome&catid=215&Itemid=720
