Stop Bashing Autism Speaks!

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It is a sad fact but a true one, that when faced with a situation where it is unrealistic to indulge in competitive comparison of the usual body part dudes JUST HAVE to compare SOMETHING...

...and pretend that is, emphatically, NOT what they are doing...

But it is really...

The DSMIV just doesn't provide the detail, and Wiki does. Unless one knows what the terms in the criteria mean, beforehand, as psychiatrists do, it's of little use for those trying to understand what Autism is. I picked wiki as a reference, because it is a fairly acceptable source here for information.

Comprehension, Inference, figurative language, spelling, vocabulary are all elements that were measured on an individual basis, Abstract reasoning is related to all of these elements, however none of these elements alone comprise abstract reasoning. A deficiency in any of these areas is not a specific measure of abstract reasoning.

Without abstract reasoning, not a likely scenario, none of these abilities would be present. Concrete reasoning, alone does not provide the ability to do these things.

Much of what is known about deficits in abstract reasoning in autism, is known because of testing indviduals with autism with tests designed to measure abstract reasoning. In the case of the article I presented it was specifically concept identification and concept formation that were tested

Much of what is known about deficits for comprehension, figurative language, and inference, as referenced by Wiki, are because of tests that measure these abilities, as well.

IQ tests, depending on what type of IQ test one takes, tests for these abilities as well.

Again, the reason that some autistics do well on IQ tests is because they excel in some areas that test for abstract reasoning, even though they may not excel in other areas.

Your anecdotal experience of compunction and feeling could be related to this. The tests don't measure the reason why difficulties of abstract reasoning are evident, they just measure the fact that one is not able to perform tasks that require abstract reasoning, or any other element that is being measured.

Compunction and feeling are not elements that can be easily measured.

I'll go get the ruler! I've got the biggest part in this parcel!

Well I struck a nerve with this thread, didn't I?

Two more pints please.

Oh Zeraeph. I didn't know you were returning after saying that you would leave five times? I think you left last time after calling vermontsavant a liar. I also note that not long ago you made a pm that said that you don't follow anything on Wrong Planet for several reasons. Yet now you follow things between I and aghogday to make some cheap dig?

Are you suggesting more pseudo-feudian claims about me? Any psychotic beliefs that despite the fact that I am arguing with you that I somehow love you?

Last edited by Gedrene on 29 Oct 2011, 5:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

Are you actually going to say anything relevant or important? Could you have an actual discussion rather than whinge with a smile?

Last edited by Gedrene on 29 Oct 2011, 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Not what I was arguing. I was saying that metaphor and inference are not abstract reasoning. I was saying that they were layered communication.

I think Autism speaks would like to find a genetic cure for more profound autism. I have worked with adults that autism is so profound that they are unable to care for them self's. So while many people with autism or aspergers are high functioning.. many do not have a great quality of life.

Metaphors and inference by themselves are not abstract reasoning, they are tools that humans use to communicate abstract concepts per concept formation. Inference is required for concept formation. Metaphors are used to illustrate abstract concept formation. Words are also used to illustrate abstract concepts.

Deficits in abstract reasoning doesn't mean that one can't learn metaphors or does not have the ability for inference, they just don't score as highly as others on tests that measure abstract reasoning, inference, and the ability to understand figurative language, per example of metaphor.

There are complex metaphors that are referred to as metaphors which are layered, however simple metaphors are not referred to as layered metaphors.

Temple Grandhin suggests that some autistic people, the visual thinkers, lake the upper layer of abstract thinking, that non-autistic people have.

Maybe Temple Grandhin can describe what is behind the deficit in abstract thought, among some autistic indviduals, better than the research I have provided:

http://www.grandin.com/inc/mind.web.browser.html



She gives her theory, based on brain scans, that autistic people use problem solving circuits, instead of emotion to make decisions in social situations. She suggests a deficit in abstract verbal thinking as a result of this.

NO WAY will you ever have anything longer than Aghogday.

I don't believe that any part of my life being low quality is because I am an 'aspie'. I at the same time don't believe that some people who have what is called 'autism' are somehow not affected in terrible ways by their disorder. But where is the line really drawn between being victimised and being simply mentally handicapped? I am sure for some it is a mixture.

For me it is simply the fact that I do not think as others do and members of them have a problem with this. Humans are a notoriously cruel species to outsiders of any kind, something that does not go amiss to the wise and accepting.

Not something I ever said or talked about. That's count number two.




And lo and behold Temple Grandin says an upper layer of thinking merged with their emotions. I say layered communication.


I am sure you're going to talk about the point where she says the words abstract and lack.

She says higher consciousness composed of abstract verbal thoughts that are 'merged' with emotion.
Idiom and inference are not 'merged' with emotion and have never been described as such. She's moved in to a different subject but still in the same area: language. What she is saying there is that she thinks clearly. Emotion does not influence how she processes information. That isn't a bad thing.

To be honest from what I can tell NTs say that my communication has a deficit in the same way that I have a deficit in gold plated toilets.

It's also something that Tambourine Man never talked about either. It's a general point I am making in my post for anyone who may be reading it, everything I say is not in reference to you what you have said.

Abstract verbal thought, is abstract verbal thinking, not abstract verbal language. Temple Grandhin suggests that some non-autistic individuals, do not have what she calls this layer of thinking.

In her description the deficit in the layer of thinking is synomynous with a deficit in abstract verbal thought. Abstract verbal thought, is abstract thinking/reasoning. As she describes most indviduals think use abstract verbal though merged with emotion. She does not have the same ability as most non-autistic people do.

So she has a deficit in the part of abstract reasoning that requires verbal thought, associated with emotion. This is related both to figurative language and abstract verbal reasoning.

This does not mean she completely lacks the ability for abstract reasoning, she uses pictures intead of words. This leads to deficits in some measures of abstract reasoning and strengths in other areas. It is what allowed her to accomplish some of the things in life, that other people have not thought of. It also presented greater difficulties for her, until she learned how to accommodate for it.

Metaphors are typically used to describe nuance of emotion, there are a multitude of examples available on google, if one cares to look, if one can't think of any, chances are one doesn't use metaphors to describe emotion, the way people typically do.

The emotion is merged with the metaphor. Without the understanding of how the two become one, one cannot fully understand the metaphor.

Typical example: I feel blue today. Taken literally an autistic person might wonder does this mean the person is the color blue?

Many idioms are certainly merged with emotion, one cannot separate the emotion from the idiom and be able to understand it as a normally unrelated phrase that becomes one with an emotion.

Some examples:

Ants in one's pants People who have ants in their pants are very restless or excited about something
"I wish he'd relax. He's got ants in his pants about something today!"

Bare your heart (or soul) to someone If you bare your heart or soul to someone, you reveal your innermost thoughts and feelings to them.
"John couldn't keep things to himself any longer. He decided to bare
his soul to his best friend."

Bear the brunt (of something) A person who bears the brunt of something is the one who suffers the most when something bad or unpleasant happens.
"When things go wrong, his assistant always has to bear the brunt of
his anger."

Emotion based inference is common. It is suggested to be a problem in autistic people because they don't process emotion based inference the way their peers do.

There is research ongoing:

http://www.kintera.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=cdJGKONnFmG&b=3976705&ct=11212851

Autism speaks is pure propaganda.

Really aghogday? I can see the inference there and it's ugly. Give me a break. At least I break up posts in to digestible pieces that aree coherent.


Are we running rings again? Don't be pedantic. She said communication. I said thinking. We both said layered. I think we're on the same page.

You're the one trying to make the unsubstantial link between abstract thinking and layered thinking or communication as she said. Inference and metaphor are not signs of abstraction. They're signs of highly political social communication. Something that is complex is not better, especially since we can learn the concepts themselves.

To be honest I find sarcasm the epitome of the worst I offer to the world. Why? Because it isn't intelligence. It's bickering.


No it isn't. Figurative language is not a sign of greater abstraction. It's a sign of layered communication as she said. That is not abstract thinking. It's a sign of emotional interference. She said this herself. Why make her say things that she didn't?