Sperm donor was AS

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I think people like you riley, have gone well beyond reasonable disagreement, and into irrational hatred and name-calling

Fine, I'll revise that! Sperm clinics do not just to IVF, they also do artificial insemination as well.

I haven't name called but I may have described his actions as sociopathic.

He posted BRAGGING about his intentionally lying to women in order for them to be impregnated with his semen.

Now you post as if he is my victim. No-one forced him to post about it, and yes he has been judged on it by people which is what he ASKED FOR. He bragged about the quality of his genes.. surely he is man enough not to need you to run to his defense.

All your points have been answered and refuted earlier on in the thread.

To all you Charloz haters, please, please think before you type

Well *I* am still waiting for him to answer my questions. If he could just answer that he has, at any moment, thought about what all this means for the child I would feel a lot better about it. But I would assume that since he never has answered on the point that he never gave it very much thought. That speaks for itself.

Yes he claims to be an empathetic individual so I asked him (Charloz) how he thought the parents would feel being deceived?. No answer was forthcoming...

I think he has exhausted his escape avenues for his (alleged) actions.

Moral relativity isn't justified as he lives and is a product of the same western liberal moral paradigm as the rest of us.

Justifiable action based on autism activism/autism rights is not justifiable because not being able to "donate" eggs or sperm is neither discrimination nor a human right. He has ignored the fact that clinics store egg and sperm for personal use so there is no discrimination there. Secondly I have not actually seen sperm banks advertise they do not accept sperm from people with disabilities. If the latter is the case then what are the commercial, ethical and moral implications that he needs to explore if he is passionate about the issue? There are other ways of fighting or advocating to expand the diversity of a gene bank that childless couples can access. I think for his own peace of mind he needs to explore whether this is really the case or just his preconceived view.

If he has fathered children without disclosing his autism then he clearly (examining the facts) has gone about this entirely the wrong way.

I have donated to both the sperm bank as well as to a woman IRL whom I met on the internet. This woman and I are still in regular contact over the internet, and she sends me pictures and updates about the child she conceived using my sperm about once a month. So far he?s developing excellently and does not display any signs of a disability. I find that, even though I have never held the little one, I do care about his wellbeing. If I ever got an e-mail in which the birth mother said he displayed some signs of social or learning issues, I?d try and suggest her to have the child tested by a professional. If needs be, I would even disclose my own family history of autism, something she has never directly asked about and that I have never mentioned.

Have I thought about what it means to be born to a sperm donor? I have, actually, thought about it a lot. The fate of my offspring definitely concerns me and it?s a topic that is on my mind virtually every other day. I wake up and go to bed with it. I?ve always been a family-oriented person and have always loved children. I?ve always wanted to have my own, too. My fiancée feels the same way and would love to have a large family with me as soon as our financial situation allows it.

Sometimes I imagine what it would be like to be born with a brain like my own. Not a bad prospect, IMO. I?m not unintelligent though I would not call myself far above average, and I am a creative person who is able to think outside of the box rather than conform to rules that seem, more often than not, to be illogical or unpractical. There?s a rebellious streak to me, something fearless and courageous. There?s a bravery in me, an impulsiveness bordering on the reckless. I never back down from a fight or run away from a challenge and I?ve never been afraid to question authority and it?s representatives wherever I go, and whatever I do. These are not bad traits to have, though sometimes they are far from practical.

When I was born I was given a set of tools that was unique to my own being. I was given a strength and a power that to this very day has kept me going strong. I can acknowledge the fact that some of my actions are far from ideal, and that perhaps to some they seem extreme, if not to say immoral or outright criminal. But at the end of the day I still stand by what I have done, and I believe that if a child is born to my semen who resembles me in the ways I described, such a child will have the tools, the will and the determination to make something of him or herself in spite of the odds. I believe that these children will be strong, and will succeed in life one way or another.

I?ve always thought about the possibility of passing on a more severe form of autism then my own. I read in several replies that often mildly autistic parents carry these genes with them as they may have less high functioning relatives somewhere in their family trees. My own family tree, however, only has a few people one would qualify as ?eccentric?. What used to be eccentric, now has become Aspergers. There is no history of mental retardation or severe autism in my family so unless it runs in the families of the women I donated too, the children will at most be mildly autistic, at best NT.

Another thing I have thought about is how welcome a child would be, born to my sperm. My theory is that such a child would be extremely welcome in whatever family he or she is born in, as the type of family that has fertility issues and spends thousands of dollars on IVF treatments must want children very, very badly. The same way people who adopt must love children a lot to be willing to go through long and painful adoption processes, IVF isn?t a walk in the park. It?s a long and troublesome process that I have a lot of respect for? especially having experienced firsthand the pain of the involuntary childless, in the form of a lonely elderly couple in my neighborhood that was never able to conceive. Anyone who loves children enough to go through such pain and hardship, such heart wrenching, just to have a child of their own to love and hold, will make an excellent parent in my book. And excellent parents don?t mind their children being a little different, because an AS child can be just as excellent as an NT child.

At the end of the day, a child is the product of the way it is raised, not of its. And yet my genes have found their way into many households through my sperm donation. They live on, not only in the children my fiancée and I will have, but also in those I fathered through the sperm bank. They are born to loving fathers and mothers, to loving same sex couples, and couples battling infertility. To white, black and Asian couples, to old and young couples, same and opposite sex, wealthy, middle class or even poor. Their one uniting factor is their love for children, and their desire to start a family. To have been able to contribute to achieving their dreams, and at the same time achieve my own, is an amazing feeling. And I regret nothing.

I hope this explains it well enough. Or at least a little better than I have been able to explain it earlier. It?s not an easy thought process, but the thought process is definitely there I can assure you of that. I?m not a father yet, in the traditional sense of the word, but I hope to be one eventually. As someone who hopes to be a father, I always have and always will think of the children. And thinking of them, I have made my decision. A decision by which I stand.

No they haven't been.

I am also still yet to see him post any concerns for the welfare of the children he sired. He does not seem to care about that, his number 1 priority is that he got his genes spread for his own political ideals.

We have been thinking and asking questions and all we get is ignored or accused of picking on him.....

..this despite the fact he ASKED people to post what they thought of his actions. Perhaps you should actually read his OP instead of trying to make out he's some kind of victim.

Edit. Now he has indeed written about having actual contact with the biological mothers.

Expecting your child to be perfect is unreasonable. The combination of genes will always be a gamble.

At the moment, autism is seen as a horrible disability by most people. When the genes for autism are found and attitudes haven't changed, then couples will abort autistic children, or be pressured into aborting them.

90% of children with downs syndrome and spina bifida are aborted, and there is no reason to believe that autistic children will face the same rate of abortions.

This is why people on the autistic spectrum need to have as many children as possible. The more people who are carrying autistic genes, means more people will let their autistic baby live, and there will be more autistics in the world.

If we do nothing, we face extermination, if we do something, some people might feel betrayed. The negative consequences of our inaction trump the negative consequences of our actions. From a purely utilitarian perspective, those on the autistic spectrum who donate to sperm banks (and I'm sure Charloz isn't the only one) are doing the right thing.

I appreciate you sharing all that. I am glad you care, and you've stated your case well.

But. An angle I'd like you to think of:

Most of us are naturally born to families in which we fit in to some degree, because genetics simply makes it that way. But what is it like for a child who doesn't fit in at all? Perhaps if you are disclosing your likes and interests that will help the process enough, but what if it doesn't? Is it possible for your lovely, wonderful, engaging but eccentric ASD child to have parents that will end up being curabies that can only be happy with a social butterfly child?

We recently had a full, new evaluation done on our son for college testing paperwork, and one of the things the psychologist pointed out was how unusually well adjusted he was, given how many ASD kids his age she sees. He is a happy kid who is very comfortable in his own skin; that is not common for ASD kids in our area, apparently. She felt that the fact we were a full-on quirky family that had embraced our quirkiness was responsible for how well adjusted my son is. She sees so many kids who want to change who they are, who HATE their amazing brains, and she attributes that to them having families that don't value it as a positive thing in the way we do.

So can your child's unique, amazing brain be appreciated in a family that isn't prepared for it, that would never have chosen it? And how will that disconnect affect the child? That is what I want you to think about and try to visualize. Could you have been happy in some of these families, and how would it have affected you if your parents hadn't been able to value who you are?

Maybe it's me, but I find this entire notion of the end justifying the means, quite unsettling.

It isn't just you.

Not to mention, that type of thinking can backfire big time.

We get a LOT further by having popular actors, comedians, scientists, and other leaders admit to their ASD.

Honestly, the research is going so far away from the idea that there is some single, identifiable gene involved that the whole fear is simply misplaced. Nature found its way around the human need to try to control the outcomes with kids; its been very busy teaching the world a lesson. You and I don't have to do a thing.

According to the poll results, few here respect your lack of concern for what the women in your life deserve, the truth. Show some real courage for a change. Selfishness is not rebellious, it's what children do to get what they want.

And it's absurd what you want, there is no shortage of people on the autistic spectrum in the world, the numbers are growing every day. No one needs your "help".

What you forget is that half the DNA in the child belongs to to the mother. Autism doesn't take that away. If the mother doesn't believe that, then she is ignorant and has failed morally. By rejecting the child, she is rejecting a part of herself.

I also don't believe that autistic children shouldn't exist just to appease bigoted people. Bigots should never be appeased.

I think think people who make life hard for autistic people should recieve opprobrium, not those who bring them into the world.

Autism needs to be brought to people's doorsteps, not hidden away or covered up like you seem to advocate.

I was born into a family that didn't have anyone else on the autistic spectrum. It's been hard sometimes, as some of of my family still don't understand what autism is and how is affects me but I'd rather have these than not exist at all.




Are you omniscient, how do you know that. The current idea that autism could be a combination of genes might turn out to be a red herring, or the combination of genes might turn out to be as easily identifiable as a single gene. You are basically arguing that we risk committing suicide as a people on the off chance that the autism gene might not be easily identifiable.

Who is hiding what here? You have completely twisted what I've said and created thoughts in-between the lines that don't exist. I'm advocating for it to be 100% in the open, including on the sperm donor form. The more open it is, the less fear there will be. I am not a fan of being sneaky no matter what the reason; it is not ME advocating for hiding ANYTHING.

What I was talking about was the real experience many ASD kids have growing up in fully NT families. Why? Because this is a thread about intentionally making a choice that will increase the odds that a fully NT family will have an ASD child. I am sharing that I have been told by those who see a lot of ASD kids that ASD kids are happier in quirkier, less NT, families. Who is talking about HIDING them? I am talking about if it is fair TO THE CHILD to intentionally create a situation that could make their life less happy. This isn't nature we're discussing; it is one person's own version of genetic engineering. I simply think every fact and consideration about LIFE FOR THE CHILD needs to be considered. That is ALL I am doing; presenting information that the OP may not have factored in.

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Clearly, I have posted an opinion. But with all the reading I've done, and all I have observed around me, I am pretty firm in my opinion. I am very good at distilling information and instinctively seeing the direction in which it is headed. Not always; I don't always have a feel for something; but with this, I do. There is a lot more than one thing going on; there is a lot of reason to believe that certain environmental triggers are involved (most likely in combination); I really think that if there was one gene, they would have found it. And you have to look at the ebb and flow with nature; how nature seeks a certain balance. You are not at risk for committing suicide as a people; it just isn't going to happen. And if you were - - the method in this thread is far, far, FAR from the answer. You can't change the world through sperm bank donations. IMHO, of course. We're having a debate here, and so I'm making my case.

Wow that is judgmental. If a woman gives birth to a child with a severe disability acknowledging that that severe disability exists is not rejecting that child because of bigotry.

It really is clear to me that some people have absolutely NO comprehension as to how severe autism can be. I agree with accepting people with ASD,. I agree with accepting anyone with disabilities for that matter but to deliberately create disability without warning the mothers that their child may need extra support is selfish.

So those "bigoted mothers" got taught a lesson eh? Yep and who is going to pay those many thousands of dollars of early intervention and other therapies because their child is 6 years old and hasn't even begun talking yet?

This is not about NT mothers being bigots. This is all about some people with ASD having very bigoted attitudes towards NTs.

Fine. Get a placard. Protest against them.. but actually creating children via deception to punish them is just punishing those children.