Gedrene wrote:
aghogday wrote:
inference and comprehension are required to understand and use metaphors/figurative language
For starters I wasn't talking about a deficiency in comprehension ever and I wasn't debating the idea that one doesn't need inference to understand metaphors or anything. You're just talking in circles now to be honest.
aghogday wrote:
While I understand that it is your opinion that difficulties in abstract reasoning aren't part of Autism, can you find any source anywhere that backs up your opinion? You suggest I am basing what I state on faith, where I have presented evidence instead of opinion.
Back up an opinion? A definition isn't an opinion. it's your opinion that abstraction has anything to do with inference or metahors or figurative language. It's faith because you put faith in sources of official sites even when what they say is logically impossible. Apparently you say inference is abstract reasoning, not layered thinking like how I said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AbstractionTheWiki wrote:
Abstraction is a process by which higher concepts are derived from the usage and classification of literal ("real" or "concrete") concepts, first principles, or other methods.
That isn't inference, that's comprehension.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ ... t+thinkingdictionary.com wrote:
abstract thinking n. Thinking characterized by the ability to use concepts and to make and understand generalizations, such as of the properties or pattern shared by a variety of specific items or events.
By the way, this is an american source
These have to do with calling a cat a cat, knowing that a drawridge doesn't allow people to cross itwhen it's up and knowing how to call something good and evil. This is abstraction, abstract thinking, not this pseudo-abstraction that you are trying to say is abstraction, a simply superfluous system of layered wordplay that people shouldn't use outside of art.
aghogday wrote:
I've provided a great deal of evidence to support that difficulties with abstract reasoning, comprehension, inference, metaphors/figurative language is a common problem in Autism.
And I haven't given a damn whether you think it is or not because my only sticking point is that
inference and metaphor are not abstraction or abstract reasoning. And you just added in that comprehension one too. You're tripping over yourself again.
I'm not suggesting that either inference, metaphor/figurative language, or comprehension are abstract reasoning. I don't have a disagreement with you on that part. My assertion, per the description of abstract reasoning which includes skills that are related to it, backed up by two sources, provides evidence that the inference and comprehension required to use metaphors for problem solving is a skill of abstract reasoning.
I don't disagree with your basic definitions of abstraction and abstract thinking, provided by Wiki and free dictionary, but they don't give examples of the skills/tasks in life that are related to abstract reasoning that are available both on reference.com and about.com.
Difficulties in understanding figurative language such as metaphors and being able to use them in solving problems is a skill of abstract reasoning that I provided two sources of evidence for, that they are difficulties commonly seen in autism.
Autistic people commonly do very well in concrete reasoning skills. The same source that provided the skills in the last post related to abstract reasoning also provides the skills related to concrete reasoning:
http://learningdisabilities.about.com/od/glossar1/g/concretereason.htmQuote:
Definition: Concrete Reasoning:
The ability to analyze information and solve problems on a literal level. Concrete reasoning tasks involve skills such as:
•Basic knowledge of names of objects, places, and people;
•Understanding of basic cause and effect relationships;
•Solving problems that have clear processes and logical solutions; and typically
•Do not involve theory, metaphor, or complex analogy.
http://learningdisabilities.about.com/od/glossar1/g/abstractreason.htmQuote:
Definition Abstract Reasoning:
The ability to analyze information and solve problems on a complex, thought-based level is sometimes referred to as abstract reasoning. Abstract reasoning tasks involve skills such as:
•Forming theories about the nature of objects, ideas, processes, and problem solving;
•Understanding subjects on a complex level through analysis and evaluation;
•Ability to apply knowledge in problem-solving using theory, metaphor, or complex analogy; and
•Understanding relationships between verbal and non-verbal ideas.
30 Oct 2011, 6:16 pm
