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Stop Bashing Autism Speaks!

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vermontsavant
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31 Oct 2011, 12:49 pm

what is the corolation between someone children looking upon a bizzare scene,a violin and nero caesar.i dont get the last three posts at all


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Gedrene
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31 Oct 2011, 1:47 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
what is the corolation between someone children looking upon a bizzare scene,a violin and nero caesar.i dont get the last three posts at all

Nero supposedly watched rome burn whilst playing the fiddle. This is supposed to be a little dig at the argument between me and aghogday by way of a bad analogy

The problem is that the whole event is anachronistic. Nero died long before the fiddle was invented. It's the criticism equivalent of saying that somebody looks like frankenstein when he was the creator of the monster, not the monster himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmwj6HdazA0
Go to 2:32



vermontsavant
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31 Oct 2011, 3:14 pm

the modern violin was invented by Amatti in cremona italy in the 1500's.but the were viol like instraments that pre dated that.i dont know if ancient viols existed in the 2nd century when nero i think lived.it is possably


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Gedrene
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31 Oct 2011, 5:30 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
the modern violin was invented by Amatti in cremona italy in the 1500's.but the were viol like instraments that pre dated that.i dont know if ancient viols existed in the 2nd century when nero i think lived.it is possably

Maybe, but I doubt back to Nero's time, and it certainly wasn't a fiddle.



vermontsavant
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31 Oct 2011, 5:51 pm

Gedrene wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
the modern violin was invented by Amatti in cremona italy in the 1500's.but the were viol like instraments that pre dated that.i dont know if ancient viols existed in the 2nd century when nero i think lived.it is possably

Maybe, but I doubt back to Nero's time, and it certainly wasn't a fiddle.
no they were called viols and they had fretts like a lute or guitar but were play standing up like a cello.they came in diferent sizes and the smallest sounded like a viola


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Gedrene
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31 Oct 2011, 6:00 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
the modern violin was invented by Amatti in cremona italy in the 1500's.but the were viol like instraments that pre dated that.i dont know if ancient viols existed in the 2nd century when nero i think lived.it is possably

Maybe, but I doubt back to Nero's time, and it certainly wasn't a fiddle.
no they were called viols and they had fretts like a lute or guitar but were play standing up like a cello.they came in diferent sizes and the smallest sounded like a viola

Aye, did they actually have viols in roman times?



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01 Nov 2011, 5:13 am

@gedrene im a classicly trained musician and i double checked with the harvard dictionary of music.as far as historical record there is no evidence of the viol family of instraments earlier than the early renaisance.i dont know if bowed instraments existed in the early middle ages


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Gedrene
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01 Nov 2011, 9:51 am

vermontsavant wrote:
@gedrene im a classicly trained musician and i double checked with the harvard dictionary of music.as far as historical record there is no evidence of the viol family of instraments earlier than the early renaisance.i dont know if bowed instraments existed in the early middle ages

I think we can say with 99% probability that Nero could not have played a fiddle or similar instrument.



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01 Nov 2011, 12:42 pm

I think you are right when you say we should stop bashing Autism Speaks. :)
I'll admit, I've often been annoyed with the way that Autism Speaks portrays autism, mostly because it gives off the impression that all autistic people struggle terribly. It annoys me because I feel they will give people the wrong impression. I'm well aware that there are autistic people out there who struggle, but if people were to follow the description that Autism Speaks gives us, all autistic people would struggle, but for the wrong reasons.
I don't think it's possible to seperate someone from their autism. So you either have it, or you don't.
I feel that Autism Speaks have spent so much time and money with all this research on finding a "cure" for autism. The idea of a cure is, for me, really hard to picture. If me and my friend Henrik (who also has Asperger's) were to be "cured", we'd be completely different people. It would change almost every aspect of our personalities. Which is why the idea of a cure sounds incredibly impossible to me. And therefore, I feel that the people in Autism Speaks are wasting their time and money on research which is never going to produce a result. :cry:

On the other hand, they are just trying to help. And like Tambourine-Man said, there are autistics and and aspies out there who do struggle because of things like self-harm, speech issues, etc.
They should get treatment that will put an end to things like that, because it will most likely make life easier for them. I don't think it "cures" their autism, but it does help. :)
And like Tambourine-Man also said, they are changing, which makes me feel happy. :D If they were to use their money to help fund support services rather than endlessly searching for a non-existant "cure", they would be doing the world a lot of good. Hopefully, they will get to that eventually. :)

I'm praying that it'll go that way... :wink:


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02 Nov 2011, 4:05 pm

I'll stop bashing Autism Speaks when they stop using money towards genetic research and they start helping us out by giving us a bit of that easy raised money, every year.


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02 Nov 2011, 4:37 pm

ETHAN1994 Wrote:

Quote:
I think you are right when you say we should stop bashing Autism Speaks.
I'll admit, I've often been annoyed with the way that Autism Speaks portrays autism, mostly because it gives off the impression that all autistic people struggle terribly. It annoys me because I feel they will give people the wrong impression. I'm well aware that there are autistic people out there who struggle, but if people were to follow the description that Autism Speaks gives us, all autistic people would struggle, but for the wrong reasons.
I don't think it's possible to seperate someone from their autism. So you either have it, or you don't.
I feel that Autism Speaks have spent so much time and money with all this research on finding a "cure" for autism. The idea of a cure is, for me, really hard to picture. If me and my friend Henrik (who also has Asperger's) were to be "cured", we'd be completely different people. It would change almost every aspect of our personalities. Which is why the idea of a cure sounds incredibly impossible to me. And therefore, I feel that the people in Autism Speaks are wasting their time and money on research which is never going to produce a result.

On the other hand, they are just trying to help. And like Tambourine-Man said, there are autistics and and aspies out there who do struggle because of things like self-harm, speech issues, etc.
They should get treatment that will put an end to things like that, because it will most likely make life easier for them. I don't think it "cures" their autism, but it does help.
And like Tambourine-Man also said, they are changing, which makes me feel happy. If they were to use their money to help fund support services rather than endlessly searching for a non-existant "cure", they would be doing the world a lot of good. Hopefully, they will get to that eventually.

I'm praying that it'll go that way...


I pretty much agree with all of this, only I haven't seen a fat lot of evidence that they are actually helping anyone at all. (They may be, but I haven't seen the evidence myself.) I don't personally see any reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they have good, if somewhat misguided intentions.

But there are some who think that they are just playing an exploitation game, and that they aren't actually misguided at all. And that they know darn well that there is no such thing as a cure, but they can keep raking in sympathy money whilst they pretend to look for one.

I don't want to sound like i'm attacking them here, I'm just making the point that we can't second-guess what their intentions really are. The above is what alot of people on AFF seem to believe, and although I personally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, a DTA philosophy can work wonders sometimes.



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02 Nov 2011, 5:24 pm

OrangeCloud wrote:
ETHAN1994 Wrote:
Quote:
I think you are right when you say we should stop bashing Autism Speaks.
I'll admit, I've often been annoyed with the way that Autism Speaks portrays autism, mostly because it gives off the impression that all autistic people struggle terribly. It annoys me because I feel they will give people the wrong impression. I'm well aware that there are autistic people out there who struggle, but if people were to follow the description that Autism Speaks gives us, all autistic people would struggle, but for the wrong reasons.
I don't think it's possible to seperate someone from their autism. So you either have it, or you don't.
I feel that Autism Speaks have spent so much time and money with all this research on finding a "cure" for autism. The idea of a cure is, for me, really hard to picture. If me and my friend Henrik (who also has Asperger's) were to be "cured", we'd be completely different people. It would change almost every aspect of our personalities. Which is why the idea of a cure sounds incredibly impossible to me. And therefore, I feel that the people in Autism Speaks are wasting their time and money on research which is never going to produce a result.

On the other hand, they are just trying to help. And like Tambourine-Man said, there are autistics and and aspies out there who do struggle because of things like self-harm, speech issues, etc.
They should get treatment that will put an end to things like that, because it will most likely make life easier for them. I don't think it "cures" their autism, but it does help.
And like Tambourine-Man also said, they are changing, which makes me feel happy. If they were to use their money to help fund support services rather than endlessly searching for a non-existant "cure", they would be doing the world a lot of good. Hopefully, they will get to that eventually.

I'm praying that it'll go that way...


I pretty much agree with all of this, only I haven't seen a fat lot of evidence that they are actually helping anyone at all. (They may be, but I haven't seen the evidence myself.) I don't personally see any reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they have good, if somewhat misguided intentions.

But there are some who think that they are just playing an exploitation game, and that they aren't actually misguided at all. And that they know darn well that there is no such thing as a cure, but they can keep raking in sympathy money whilst they pretend to look for one.

I don't want to sound like i'm attacking them here, I'm just making the point that we can't second-guess what their intentions really are. The above is what alot of people on AFF seem to believe, and although I personally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, a DTA philosophy can work wonders sometimes.

The correct philosophy is don't trust anyone you have no reason to trust. Again that's just DTA with more words for clarification.



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02 Nov 2011, 5:46 pm

It's Autism Speaks that bashes Autistics.



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02 Nov 2011, 6:16 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
It's Autism Speaks that bashes Autistics.
Arguable, but that is one of the reasons why this thread became the length that it did.



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03 Nov 2011, 2:59 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I'll stop bashing Autism Speaks when they stop using money towards genetic research and they start helping us out by giving us a bit of that easy raised money, every year.

If you didn't give them any money then you have nothing to complain about what they do with their money I would imagine.



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03 Nov 2011, 3:20 am

nostromo wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I'll stop bashing Autism Speaks when they stop using money towards genetic research and they start helping us out by giving us a bit of that easy raised money, every year.

If you didn't give them any money then you have nothing to complain about what they do with their money I would imagine.


lolwut? Are you serious? You would be still concerned if the subject matter is focused on your condition. As Autistics we have a right to criticise regardless if we give money or not, after all, we're the target of their awareness, research, advocacy, treatments, etc. The last time I checked, it's called "Autism Speaks", not, "who gives us money speaks".


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