Page 3 of 15 [ 235 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 15  Next


Do you respect the right not to be called Autistic?
Yes - Each Individual Should Choose Identity priority and reference. 72%  72%  [ 23 ]
No - Stigmatize freely for political reasons and without respect to personal choice. 28%  28%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 32

ZeroGravitas
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 499
Location: 40,075 kilometers from where I am

27 Mar 2011, 5:55 pm

ci, try these examples:

Quote:
Question: Would you vote for Bob Bobson?
Yes, because he is a great guy
No, because I kill and eat babies

Question: Is it wrong to want to nuke China?
Yes, because that would cause horrific devastation
No, because I regularly force myself sexually on toddlers.

Question: Should we abort infants with Autism to prevent this terrible scourge?
Yes, because they are hopelessly deformed and unable to live a normal life
No, because that is one of the most evil things I have ever heard, you freak


In these exaggerated examples, one choice is loaded. The question is designed such that one can count on people answering it one way, and not the other way. This is the logical fallacy of begging the question: asking a question in such a way that one assumes the answer. By biasing the choices, you ensure that you get the answer you want. It is dishonest.

It is little different than asking questions such as:

Quote:
When did you stop beating your wife?
Given the increase in infant alcoholism, do you think we should increase the drinking age?
Given that you have turned into a porpoise, what do you plan to do about your bicycle?
Since you're not going to eat that, can I have it?


Saying, essentially, "everyone is biased," is a wrong answer. Not a bad answer, but actually wrong. The person who drafts the answer-begging question knows what response they expect, and writes it such as to elicit this response.

Don't worry though. It is incredibly hard to draft polls in a neutral fashion. Professional polling services spend massive amounts of time to ensure that each option is statistically neutral.

ETA:

In case I was not clear enough, the second response on your poll is "Stigmatize freely for political reasons and without respect to personal choice."

The word "stigmatize" means "to accuse or condemn or openly or formally or brand as disgraceful." It is viewed as a bad thing, one which people do not like to admit doing.

The phrase "without respect to personal choice" is similarly loaded with connotations, none of them positive. Few people will openly admit to disrespecting other people in this manner.

Now compare these "scare words" to the wording of your first option. The first option does not contain words which carry such strong negative connotations. It instead contains words which carry rather positive options for most people.

Connotations of words such as "choice," "rights," "respect," "freedom," and "apple pie" are very different than the connotations of words such as "stigmatize," "persecute," "oppress," "fascist," and "setting orphans on fire."

Asking a question in which one option has positive connotations, and the other negative connotations, ensures that the negatively worded option will be far less often chosen. Doing this biases a poll and renders it useless for accurately gauging people's beliefs.


_________________
This sentance contains three erors.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt156929.html - How to annoy me


Last edited by ZeroGravitas on 27 Mar 2011, 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ci
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,546
Location: Humboldt County, California

27 Mar 2011, 6:01 pm

This is not a scientific poll. It has to do with behavior of a person with autism toward media and his or her feelings in context. Now originally and in context to this poll I could make another poll.

1. Do you like being stereotyped?

A. Yes I like being called autistic.

B. No I don't like being called a disorder.

Part of the reason to function within the premise of a disorder as an identity is to alter the perceptions of that disability within society at times. This is the political nature of anti-cure groups. What the problem is if they are trying to redefine what auitsm is why are they doing so?

A. Abortion politics (conflict orientated).

B. Self-esteem (good).

C. Ideological at times adverse to required social service spending. (adverse).

The problem here is not the desire to feel good about oneself but the effects it has on other issues. I wish people would really critically begin to think about these issues and causality.


_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com


ZeroGravitas
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 499
Location: 40,075 kilometers from where I am

27 Mar 2011, 6:17 pm

A poll does not need to be scrutinized statistically in order to be fair, ci. All it takes is that one honestly look it over with the help of a dictionary to make sure that one has not biased the results by wording one option much less positively than the other option.

Quote:
Question: Would you steal candy from a baby?
Yes, because babies are defective humans who cannot be trusted due to their clearly antisocial and communistic, heathenish tendancies
No, because the principles of our great nation- Freedom, Truth, Justice, Batman - mean that the rights of infants should not be violated in such a cruel and unAmerican manner


In this example, one option is made much less appealing than the other. In such a way, in fact, that one need not carefully study statistics and perform regression analysis to note this. All it would take to see that this is a terrible, terrible poll would be a basic understanding that one option contains a ton of negatively charged words while the other contains a ton of positively charged words.

A poll is worthless if it is biased. A biased poll doesn't determine opinions, it polarizes those opinions by giving good ammunition to those who disagree with the pollster.


_________________
This sentance contains three erors.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt156929.html - How to annoy me


ci
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,546
Location: Humboldt County, California

27 Mar 2011, 6:31 pm

The poll was not about using numbers for a news article to persuade the public. It's based on ones own behavior and feelings. Ones feelings are not useless. If folks want to call themselves a label so be it. If others feel they don't want to be called a label so be it as well. Emotions are not always items of pure logic but can be understood by means of logic.

Remember this:

A. Abortion politics (conflict orientated).

B. Self-esteem (good).

C. Ideological at times adverse to required social service spending. (adverse).

You and others will need it for the identity politics vs. the disability classification politics. Just a little heads up.


_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com


ZeroGravitas
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 499
Location: 40,075 kilometers from where I am

27 Mar 2011, 6:45 pm

Polls exist to determine the emotions and beliefs of those polled. Not those of those doing the polling.

Again, a biased poll does not identify anything other than the emotions and beliefs of the person who created it, and gives ample ammunition to those who disagree with the pollster. It defeats its express purpose of allowing people to state their own beliefs and emotions, by only expressing the emotions and beliefs of the person who wrote the poll. This is not representation or communication of anything but the fact that the pollster feels some way.

A biased poll serves exactly the same purpose as a rant, except it attempts to pass itself off as a dialogue.


_________________
This sentance contains three erors.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt156929.html - How to annoy me


ci
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,546
Location: Humboldt County, California

27 Mar 2011, 6:48 pm

Correct. My intent is to polarize to persuade and then find a middle. This again is not a scientific poll. It'a a rant with intent to create dialog and some would call it a trick. It's only a trick if you disagree with it but very creative if you like it.

Look forward to another post in a few hours with a video about identity politics vs. disability classification politics. I have to go print labels for candles now. I got a job but not just talking with text folk.


_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com


Last edited by ci on 27 Mar 2011, 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

glider18
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,062
Location: USA

27 Mar 2011, 6:48 pm

For me, I am fine with being called autistic, Aspie, having Asperger's, etc. The label doesn't bother me, although I respect those who don't want to be labelled. Even on a brain types chart in my classroom (where those who want to plot their type on the chart can) I have my name on the region of the chart entitled "autism." In my music performances I tell audiences I have autism/Asperger's and explain how it has worked in my life.


_________________
"My journey has just begun."


ci
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,546
Location: Humboldt County, California

28 Mar 2011, 12:53 am

Lets think of the context of this conversation in two ways of not wanting to be labeled. There is being labeled for reasons of receiving services and related and then there is one that engrosses a person into the concept. A perspective assumed that someone would enjoy being called out right a disorder label. I don't mind being known as having been born with autism as my job is in part awareness and to motivate others with autism and other DD's. Just when the label becomes the identity is when I'm thinking hey that's a bit insulting, why focus so much on the negatives and what the hell purpose is that for.

There are people born with other kinds of disabilities but they don't allow themselves to be called it. Let's image I had cerebral palsy. I do not know of anyone that calls folks the palsy. Someone born with epilepsy (epileptic) does not ask others to call them epics even though I am sure they have great stories to tell at times. I am constantly reminded of a speech by the Martin Luther King Jr. entitled The Drum Major Instinct Speech and also judging the character of the person and not the race (label) even though some with autism claim autism is a race. So What gives when the disorder label is assumed as the identity more and more and negativities about it are rejected when the label is about disability to receive services for.

It's others choice to focus on the negatives but soon as the I am insulted politics begin to proclaim to the public directly and or indirectly hey it's not that bad why the hell would they fund social services? You folks got it all tangled up and it's really hard to trust it. Also who in the hell really wants to be called a disorder and feel negative about the disorder. This natural conflict of interest is a substantial bias in awareness specifically toward social services and potentially effecting quality of life due to social and political pressure based self-esteem and the image of autism politics.

Also I am not sure about this autism way of thinking other then peer pressure based politics. I know people with autism. They think all sorts of different ways. It's hard to chart something like that.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo0MZFNRQF0[/youtube]


_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com


glider18
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,062
Location: USA

28 Mar 2011, 6:39 am

I see autism in my life (not particularly the lives of others) as a positive. And I am not treated negatively by those around me (at work, church, family, etc.). I understand there are people who are treated negatively. But the people around me do not treat me negatively after they know I have autism. I know I am lucky in many ways. And I feel fortunate. It is not that way with many people.

One difference I have in how I view autism (with many others feeling the same way) is that it is a difference and not a disorder. I view autism as a difference with challenges. I gladly accept my challenges because with it comes fascinating positives. I have social awkwardness, I have sensory issues, I often take things literally, I stim a lot, etc. But, that has become who I am, and I am satisfied with who I am. I don't want that to change. Much of my personality has come from autism. The first things people usually think of when my name is mentioned is music and roller coasters. My musical abilities (being able to play any musical instrument I am fascinated with in little time and without lessons) is a talent savant skill brought about by autism. And roller coasters have been a special intense interest of mine since I was little. Roller coasters have consumed much of my life. And as I was busily studying roller coaster plans and counting the numbers of braces on the rides (and trying to figure out engineering forumulas for them), the other kids in the neighborhood were playing ball and socializing. But if I had to do it again, I wouldn't change anything about that. Roller coasters were my friends. And I prefer them to socializing. Although I have challenges (what some regard as disorders), my special intense interests brought about by autism have been fun for me. Therefore, I view autism as having given me fascinations and fun in life.

Before being diagnosed with autism, a certain group of individuals I know thought I was unfriendly. After understanding I have autism, that perspective changed and our relationship is now a positive one. My wife used to have trouble understanding me. But now, she understands me better, and our relationship has been made much stronger because of the realization that I have Asperger's.

Because of my view of autism in my life, I have to come to realize my individual relationship with autism and how I love it. Again, I realize others have their own views of it, and I respect that. All I am doing is explaining why I gladly accept the label of autism---I accept it based on my experiences with it---and they have been positive. I am enjoying life now since being diagnosed with Asperger's.

I just wanted to explain this so that perhaps some may have a better understanding of how I view autism in my life, and why the label is embraced by me---because the label represents a huge part of who I am.

My label does not get me services. My label does not get me sympathy. My label does not create a negative view of me where I live. Instead, my label is worn as a large part of my identity of who I am. This is my personal relationship with the label, and not the way many others have with their relationship with the label.


_________________
"My journey has just begun."


ci
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,546
Location: Humboldt County, California

28 Mar 2011, 12:30 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjl0kriRTvg&feature=player_embedded#at=131[/youtube]

Have you ever tried the Native American Flute. It's been about 1.5 years since I've played because of distractions but I am really good at that. It is one with the mind and I do not need practice. Then I have a studio mic and edit it. It is very tranquil. I make up the songs and I do not need instruction. I can make goose bumps in people, Native Americans like the music I make and the New Age folk like it as well. What is your music about?


_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com


glider18
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,062
Location: USA

28 Mar 2011, 1:12 pm

I tried to play a Native American Flute once. I don't think I've ever got any sound of that thing. I would love to hear you play it.

My dulcimer music (hammered and mountain variety) is old time gospel tunes and Appalachian folk music. My organ music is of two main types: 1920s style theatre pipe organ and Hammond soul style organ/ more jazzy. My synthesizer music is most closely related to New Age.

Thank you for asking Ci,

glider18


_________________
"My journey has just begun."


ci
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,546
Location: Humboldt County, California

28 Mar 2011, 6:06 pm

I am sure it is important now that you use autism as a way to socially fit in better. However saying autism is not a disorder it a great injustice to others. I wish you would stop. Especially when you are able to attend college, lead a fairly normal life and well have the desire for social interaction and all and participate and related functions. I just think your being unfair in awareness just a little just so you don't look bad as a person socially to fit in.

The term self-centered comes in to play here and I don't want to be mean about it. I am abrupt kind of like the Temple Grandin. Just saying it so you realize.


_________________
The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com


glider18
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 8 Nov 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,062
Location: USA

29 Mar 2011, 7:43 am

ci wrote:
I am sure it is important now that you use autism as a way to socially fit in better. However saying autism is not a disorder it a great injustice to others. I wish you would stop. Especially when you are able to attend college, lead a fairly normal life and well have the desire for social interaction and all and participate and related functions. I just think your being unfair in awareness just a little just so you don't look bad as a person socially to fit in.

The term self-centered comes in to play here and I don't want to be mean about it. I am abrupt kind of like the Temple Grandin. Just saying it so you realize.


Many of us here at the WP prefer to think of autism as a difference rather than a disorder. I am definitely not unique in this thinking, therefore it is not an injustice to others as I see it. I will continue to refer to autism in my life as a difference.

I am not unfair in my awareness. And I do not look bad as a person socially.

I am not self-centered---that should be evident in the way I have treated the members of this community.

You wanted people's opinions on this thread (and many other threads), and it would be best if you could respect those opinions without putting members down. You have attacked me personally (which is unfair and against the rules of the WP).


_________________
"My journey has just begun."


Sallamandrina
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,590

29 Mar 2011, 8:30 am

glider18 wrote:
I am not self-centered---that should be evident in the way I have treated the members of this community.

Your actions speak for you and along the years you were one of the people who put a lot of effort and thought in your posts and always showed concern and a desire to help and support others. A lot of members here highly appreciate your contribution.

glider18 wrote:
You wanted people's opinions on this thread (and many other threads), and it would be best if you could respect those opinions without putting members down. You have attacked me personally (which is unfair and against the rules of the WP).

Correct. Ci, please stop making assumptions about other people's struggles and difficulties. You really can't tell what someone else is going through and what price they paid for their seemingly "fairly normal" life.


_________________
"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live" (Oscar Wilde)


LiendaBalla
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,736

29 Mar 2011, 12:03 pm

No - Stigmatize me!

'SNIF" mmm stigma!

<- Is still bored.



Kail
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 367
Location: MEXICO

29 Mar 2011, 12:09 pm

Dearest ci...

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge in the field of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.

and knowledge is one of the finest attributes of man - though often it is most loudly voiced by those who strive for it the least.

It is abhorrent to me when a fine intelligence is paired with an unsavory character.

.. inspired by Albert Einstein.