Sociopaths and Aspies

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A: A trait of aspergers is to strictly enforce the rules, not break them.
B: It is considered hard for people with Aspergers to lie, they are often brutally honest.
C: People with Aspergers often have to have a plan before doing something as simple as going to the grocery store and normally will not deviate from it.
D: Rarely do people with Aspergers assault others they are more often the target of assaults.
E: Anxiety is often high among those that have Aspergers, they are normally the cautious ones in any group.
F: When people with Aspergers are employed they are often lauded for their loyalty and attention to detail in the work they do.
G: People with Aspergers do at times hurt other people's feelings without understanding they are doing it. It's not likely they would rationalize harm they don't understand they are doing.

Sociopaths feed on people with Aspergers. They are an easy mark for most sociopaths. What the guy is doing on the blog is indicative of what sociopaths do to people with Aspergers; make statements about them to attempt to harm their normally rigid moral character.

Personal experience leads me to say that A is more of a case of strictly enforcing rules they think are right.
Second I would say that C may be true in your case but it isn't for me.
E is true but that is more of a sociological factor of being picked on.
G well yeah. I think having empathy for someone else is something I don't lack. It's just people try to tell me that because I understand where they are coming from they insist I must think that they are right when in actual fact many of their trivialities seem cowardly.
I gues you were form-fitting to the criteria but I advise you not to make accidental generalizations.


Well, I am as amazed as anyone that you'd actually come straight to our defence without hesitation. It goes to show that having an open mind pays off.

There is no "DSM IV criteria for sociopathy". Sociopathy is an exact synonym for Psychopathy which was removed from DSM III but may yet be replaced in DSM V in some form.

"Anti-social Personality Disorder" is something of an umbrella term intended to include psycho/sociopathy but generally considered inadequate almost from it's inception, not least because the criteria exclude more controlled forms of psycho/sociopathy completely and only over generalise the more blatant, criminal forms.

Of course, from a diagnosticians point of view the more general, and less final, diagnosis of "Anti-social Personality Disorder" is not only easier to make from the point of view of not permanently stigmatising the patient but also from the point of view of protecting his insurance premiums. A proven misdiagnosis of psycho/sociopathy as such could lead to significant damages...likewise an alternative diagnosis that ignored the risk potential of the patient.

Here is the DSMIV criteria for Sociopathy, it has little to do with this guy's opinion about Sociopaths on his blog. In fact the traits of Aspergers are almost polar opposite to the actual DSMIV criteria for Antisocial personality disorder which is the proper psychological term for a sociopath or a psychopath:


Quote:
DSM-IV Definition

Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. Individuals with this disorder are sometimes called psychopaths or sociopaths.

I clearly state that Antisocial personality disorder is the proper psychological term for a sociopath or a psychopath.

Ok, now to the big question.

How do you tell the difference between and Aspie and a Sociopath?

*The Sociopath is initially, charming and easy to be with, the Aspie is not
*The Sociopath can almost invariably control "at least" the superficial reactions of those around him and get his own way, the Aspie cannot.

Conscience?

I don't think so...if you have a way to work out what is going on in other people's heads well enough to know if they are acting out of conscience or for the sake of appearances without knowing them very, very well you should have your own network TV series!

But there is one other dead give away...even when a Sociopath is hiding his lack of conscience he will often fail to recognise, let alone hide his impaired sense of consequence, this means:

*He is not very good at estimating his chances of being caught.
*He is not very good at at estimating factors *OUTSIDE* his control in your reaction (for example the effect *your* conscience or obligations may have on your compliance)
*He is not very good at estimating potential dangers.

Most Sociopaths have no real idea what they are, assume that they are perfectly normal and everybody else is just like them, and that anything people say to the contrary is just being polite.

The sociopath also relates everything to himself and does not really see any difference between you being pleased with him, and you being happy. If you want him to go away he will interpret that as you punishing him for a mistake in his behaviour to you, NOT as an genuine aversion you feel to him.

Edited to add:
PS There really is some awful ould rubbish talked about sociopathy on the internet - often connecting it to any other condition the author has a beef with...don't pay it too much attention.

But there is one other dead give away...even when a Sociopath is hiding his lack of conscience he will often fail to recognise, let alone hide his impaired sense of consequence, this means:

*He is not very good at estimating his chances of being caught.
*He is not very good at at estimating factors *OUTSIDE* his control in your reaction (for example the effect *your* conscience or obligations may have on your compliance)
*He is not very good at estimating potential dangers.

Most Sociopaths have no real idea what they are, assume that they are perfectly normal and everybody else is just like them, and that anything people say to the contrary is just being polite.

The sociopath also relates everything to himself and does not really see any difference between you being pleased with him, and you being happy. If you want him to go away he will interpret that as you punishing him for a mistake in his behaviour to you, NOT as an genuine aversion you feel to him.

Well as it is, in reality, nothing of the kind, I think anything else you have said can safely be disregarded as irrelevant, which is what I intend to do.

Psycho/Sociopathy can only be correctly diagnosed either by using the PCL-R scale, or, of course, subjectively.

There is no diagnosis for the words Psycho/Sociopathy in the DSM IV. Instead the DSMIV uses the word Anti-Personality Disorder to replace these common words to describe traits among individuals. I simply quote what the DSMIV states.

People do not get a DSM IV diagnosis as a sociopath or psychopath; that diagnosis doesn't exist in the DSM IV. I don't dispute that there are other measures that may still call it psychopathy and sociopathy, but the DSMIV, clearly does not recognize those words as diagnoses.

Diagnosis is not dependent on DSM IV. The inadequacy of the ASPD category, in every sense, not just in relation to psychopathy, is already acknowledged by the DSM committee themselves and the omission is likely to be repaired in DSMV.

It seems to me that, once again, you have no idea what you are talking about yet are determined to argue it anyway.

I do not intend to play.

I intend to ignore you.

Sociopaths have little regard for the feelings of others and manipulate others in order to get what they desire. The term "sociopath" is no longer used in psychology and psychiatry, and the disorder is now called "antisocial personality disorder." People who have this disorder often have no sense of right or wrong and many only receive treatment when forced to by the judicial system, an employer or family member. The disorder is relatively rare, with approximately 0.6 percent of Americans affected, according to the National Institute of Mental Health.

PCL-R Factors 1a and 1b are correlated with narcissistic personality disorder and histrionic personality disorder. They are associated with extraversion and positive affect. Factor 1, the so-called core personality traits of psychopathy, may even be beneficial for the psychopath (in terms of nondeviant social functioning).

PCL-R Factors 2a and 2b are particularly strongly correlated to antisocial personality disorder and criminality and are associated with reactive anger, criminality, and impulsive violence. The target group for the PCL-R is convicted criminals. The quality of ratings may depend on how much background information is available and whether the person rated is honest and forthright.

Psychopathy, as measured on the PCL-R, is negatively correlated with all DSM-IV Axis I disorders except substance abuse disorders. Psychopathy is most strongly correlated with DSM-IV antisocial personality disorder.

The official stance of the American Psychiatric Association as presented in the DSM-IV-TR is that psychopathy and sociopathy are misnomers. The World Health Organization takes a different stance in its ICD-10 by referring to psychopathy, antisocial personality, asocial personality, and amoral personality as synonyms for dissocial personality disorder.

Aghogday, you really have never knowingly met a psychopath, have you?

T 04 Antisocial Personality Disorder (Dyssocial Personality Disorder)
Proposed RevisionRationaleSeverityDSM-IV Updated June 21, 2011


The essential features of a personality disorder are impairments in personality (self and interpersonal) functioning and the presence of pathological personality traits. To diagnose antisocial personality disorder, the following criteria must be met:


A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):

a. Identity: Ego-centrism; self-esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure.

b. Self-direction: Goal-setting based on personal gratification; absence of prosocial internal standards associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.


AND


2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):

a. Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others; lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.

b. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion; use of dominance or intimidation to control others.

B. Pathological personality traits in the following domains:

1. Antagonism, characterized by:

a. Manipulativeness: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one‘s ends.
b. Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentation of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events.

c. Callousness: Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one‘s actions on others; aggression; sadism.

d. Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful behavior.

2. Disinhibition, characterized by:
a. Irresponsibility: Disregard for – and failure to honor – financial and other obligations or commitments; lack of respect for – and lack of follow through on – agreements and promises.

b. Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing and following plans.

c. Risk taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences; boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom; lack of concern for one‘s limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.

C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.

D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual’s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.

E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).

And for clarification here is the current proposed DSMV guidlines for Ant-Social Personality Disorder(Dyssocial Personality Disorder)

The terms psychopath and sociopath are not used in the revision.

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=16#

The pathological elements are basically the same as before; they have removed the specific criminal elements from the diagnosis.

Added in Identity-Egocentrism issues as an alternate option to self direction issues and Intimacy issues as an alternate option for Empathy issues.

The symptoms remind me of a major political campaign.

A. Significant impairments in personality functioning manifest by:

1. Impairments in self functioning (a or b):

a. Identity: Ego-centrism; self-esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure.
May apply to most politicians

b. Self-direction: Goal-setting based on personal gratification; absence of prosocial internal standards associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.
May apply to some politicians

AND

2. Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):

a. Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others; lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.
May apply to some politicians

b. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion; use of dominance or intimidation to control others.
May apply to some politicians

B. Pathological personality traits in the following domains:

1. Antagonism, characterized by:

a. Manipulativeness: Frequent use of subterfuge to influence or control others; use of seduction, charm, glibness, or ingratiation to achieve one‘s ends.
May apply to most politicians

b. Deceitfulness: Dishonesty and fraudulence; misrepresentation of self; embellishment or fabrication when relating events.
May apply to some politicians

c. Callousness: Lack of concern for feelings or problems of others; lack of guilt or remorse about the negative or harmful effects of one‘s actions on others; aggression; sadism.
May apply to some politicians

d. Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults; mean, nasty, or vengeful behavior.
May apply to some politicans

2. Disinhibition, characterized by:
a. Irresponsibility: Disregard for – and failure to honor – financial and other obligations or commitments; lack of respect for – and lack of follow through on – agreements and promises.
May apply to many politicians

b. Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing and following plans.
May apply to many politicians

c. Risk taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard for consequences; boredom proneness and thoughtless initiation of activities to counter boredom; lack of concern for one‘s limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.
May apply to some politicians

C. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.
May apply to some politicans

D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are not better understood as normative for the individual’s developmental stage or socio-cultural environment.
The traits displayed here may be part of the normal socio-cultural environment for some politicians.

E. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual’s personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., severe head trauma).
As far as I know this may apply to all politicians.