If there was a designated country for Aspies

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I think it will happen one day - an Aspie Liberation Movement - but not in my lifetime. All the great liberation movements - Women's Liberation, Gay Liberation, the Black equality movement, Ghandi's stand against the British domination of Indians - they were all initiatives which began with individuals, writers and groups forming a resolve and acting on it: we are fed up with this, we are not going to take it any more, we are going to stand together, speak our truth, protest, lobby, formulate objectives, and we are not going to go away and shut up again: you will have to learn to deal with us, because we are not going to do it your way anymore.
These groundbreakers - like Martin Luther King - suffered for their beliefs and challenges, and they were prepared for that; they knew the resistance would be fierce and involve much personal abuse and oppression of themselves. The only other alternative oppressed groups have is to live in the status quo and lick their own wounds, complain to one another and accept fewer opportunities, structural inequality, doors slammed in their faces (thrown off a train, in Ghandi's case).

I often think of something that Steve Biko said, before he was murdered for opposing apartheid in South Africa: that the biggest barrier to the liberation of black Africans wasn't even the dreadful laws and practices of the Apartheid system; it was that the consciousness of Black people had absorbed what he called the chains of Apartheid thinking. Mandela and Biko both saw that it was possible to start a movement which unlocked those chains.

Aspies have their own unique value as part of the human race, and that value is different, not inferior to NT culture. The over-riding aspie strengths include innovation, a respect for justice and equality, imagination and creativity, and innovation: conceptualising how things can be different from the way things have always been done. Sure, we do not all possess these in equal measure. We are not all the same. But these are still profound strengths that the Aspie community possesses in abundance. That these qualities are devalued by the NT world tells us far more about NT limitations and their over-investment in the trappings of personal ego than the supposed deficits of being on the spectrum.

Everyone on the spectrum has experienced NT shaming, in one form or another, simply for being who they are.

Rob Ford is hilarious though. Justin Bieber may be an embarrassment, but Rob Ford is an absolute hoot.

personally,i think that NTs should pay for they deeds one day,not every one but curebies,bulies and autism reaserchers should PAY ! !! !

and we should still fight for our minority group status

^ That nickname just looks so wrong.

why ?

I actually discussed this on my blog today...
THIS IS A LINK

Your thoughts make sense.

I think this gets to the ability issue. Is it ableist to acknowledge that there are things that some aspies can't do?

Is Aspergia for people with an Aspergers Syndrome diagnosis only? What about people with high functioning autism? What about other autistics?

What percentage of whatever that restricted population is defined as is capable off supporting themselves and others?

Given the studies that came out last year identifying a range of genetic variations common to autism, ADHD, schizophrenia, bipolar and major depression, how likely is it that in the next generation Aspergia will stop being a population restricted to aspies or all autistics? Would a primarily autistic populace create a particularly good environment for their bipolar, schizophrenic, ADHD and depressed children to grow and thrive in?

A hell of a lot better environment than experienced here. An environment where they actually CAN thrive. WE NEED TO STOP UNDERESTIMATING OURSELVES AND OUR PEOPLE!

my words exactly

I know some women who want to live mostly without men. They pooled resources and bought land. They have done some interesting experiments in communal living by those rules. Things got complicated when some of the women wanted to have children and some of their children were male.

If you are really committed to this idea, you could try to build such a community and work out all the details.

Where have I EVER underestimated myself? or any other Aspie? Hell... the problems I have on this site is because I tend to give everyone way too much credit starting out and I am disappointed because I OVER-estimated them

And our people? you mean humans? Simply put, we don't have a "people" in the traditional sense... that requires a single cultural origin... traditions and history... This sentiment is just another form of racism... Another case of Us vs. Them... and those attitudes have no place in the modern world.

And I agree... we need an environment that we can thrive in... but Aspergia isn't it.

How is having a designated country (not state, see sig) for Aspies racist, but having on for - oh, say, the Welsh - not?

I think it could actually work, but not if we try to impose existing structures, and it's going to take a lot of experimentation to figure out a system that could work with Aspergers.

Perhaps a highly automated technocracy of some kind, coming about as a consequence of having an adhocracy - the people who run things are those who take the responsibility for making sure the machines work. We're really not far from spreading automation to the masses, and if we apply our efforts deliberately towards the goal...

Then we must ask the question, what things do Aspies struggle with? What do people see as being the showstoppers? Troubles with getting and keeping a job? Well, change the environment and see what happens then. Anything else? I really don't think there'll be a problem finding people who do the remaining "dirty" jobs, because I'm fairly certain that obsessive cleanliness is not an Aspie trait. Though the sensory stimulation might be. But we'll just have to improve what they wear then.

Feralucce, you seem to be suggesting that we'd be attacked simply for being Aspies. Whilst that is a possibility, I don't think that has much of a bearing on whether such a country could actually function. Only on whether the bullies will allow us to exist.

To go through your list:
- Factory jobs - you are presupposing the existing Sloanist means of production, which are already on there way out. Think more about flexible local garage factories that that make modular parts, rather than one big factory. I'm sure there are Aspie machinists and engineers (indeed, I'm in the process of switching courses to engineering at the moment). Believe me, that will not be a problem.
- Retail - why do we need loads of shops, anyway? If there is a demand for shops, there will be Aspies who don't have a problem with running them who will be willing to take that job, and failing that (though I doubt it would get that far), it will provide an incentive to Entie immigration. But again, you're imposing existing systems on the hypothetical country. There is no need to have a physical shop when you can order something from a local FabLab or Cornucopia and have it delivered within a day. Or just manufacture it yourself.
- Food services - I don't understand. Are you suggesting we need restaurants for civilisation to function? Or Fish & Chip shops? Why? Anyway, your tarring of all Aspies with the same brush applies here as well. Especially if you have food delivery services, so there needn't be much interaction...
- Waste treatment - again, I'm very sure there will be Aspies who want/are willing to do this sort of thing. Just because you can't handle waste, it doesn't mean no Aspie can. But we only need to go near it when the machine inevitably breaks down.
- Socialising - I socialise with other Aspies all the time, who don't share the same core interests as me. Maybe that's because I don't have a specific interest, unless you call solving problems and mentally designing awesome things an interest, and thus share interests. But I've known a lot of Aspies, and they socialised fine.

In summary, you seem to be projecting your own issues on to everyone else, and saying that a country of Feralucce clones could not function, therefore Aspergia could not. Because all Aspies are like Feralucce.

Because the Welsh are a culture. Aspies are not. Aspies do not have A culture... because we're from EVERY culture.


And during that experimentation period, other countries will take advantage of it. For a country to exist, it requires the sufferance of OTHER nations... So... let's assume they allow it... whose land are you taking?


Technocracy has the same problems as any meritocracy... WHO decides who are the people that are on charge? What Merits are in the metrics? What branch of tech is paramount?


1) Never said that there were NONE that could do these positions... I stated that I do not believe there are enough of us to fill these niches.


Look around you. We ARE... Daily... And my assertion wasn't that we would be attacked because we are proposing an exclusionist society that will require autonomy and land. Land has to be taken from someone else. Autonomy of new nations is always challenged. An exclusionist society makes the entire world nervous... it brings backs memories of world war two.


On the way out - supposition, citation needed. My opinions come from the standpoint of an engineer... We are at odds in our opinions... which is kind of my point.


Some of us actually like shops. And many Aspies are unable to fabricate or manufacture.


Who said anything about restaurants? I didn't.
I waited to bring up this point til you made your statement that is kind of offensive... My opinion comes from the research I have done... based on the expert opinions and information published by psychiatric professionals and studies. I am not tarring anyone... I am pointing out issues that we will encounter.


This statement shows that you are making assumptions. I have worked waste treatment and had no problem with it. As I said before... It's not a case of there being no one to work waste management... but not enough to support the infrastructure required for a large population. For the record... you are wrong about the work required for waste management... Unless you intend to invent a completely new way to handle such things, there are people required at all stages... Waste management includes trash collection, water reclamation, human waste and much more.


Congratulations. I have known a great many who have had the experiences I cite... as well as the scholarly papers of what has been observed. I commend you on your social skills and experiences, I do not believe that my statements concerning this are wrong, as all psychiatric studies that have been conducted to date support my stance... For the record, if you find one that contradicts what I have said here...I would love a link, so that I may update my information.


The irony of this statement is that I am not projecting. The issues I have listed in my article are not based on my own issues. They are based on research and the opinions of Psychological Professionals, scholarly papers on the subject and behavioral studies.

However... I would like to address something... the fact that you felt the need to be insulting in your refutation of my stance does go a long way to my points about socialization. I stated my opinion - which differed from yours. Instead of discussing it in a manner that furthers the conversation... You chose, instead, to be condescending and downright insulting at the end of it. But you forgot one BIG thing... the article started with the following statement "This piece is controversial in nature. Many Aspies will disagree with the sentiments expressed in this article. I mean no disrespect, and like many of the articles in this series, I only speak for myself."

That being said... it's no biggie... I actually issue this challenge... get out there, get us a country worth of land, and make Aspergia happen. At the end of 30 years, if my predictions have not come true, I will readily admit that I was wrong. However, until that time, this is a thought experiment, we have our opinions... we can express them, because there is NO ONE that is right or wrong in this conversation... But do it with respect please...

Yes, no-one is right or wrong in this conversation, because it is an exercise in socio-political imagination: what it would be like for aspies to live without discrimination, in a society that was self-directed by aspie values, to live and not be judged by standards and social organisation that favours NTs.

Someone on WP did once comment that trying to organise aspies to do things collectively for their own advancement would be like trying to herd cats!

Now someone will say "well not all aspies share the same values". And we don't. What we share are the same stigmatisations and barriers in the NT world.

Perhaps a simpler form of the same kind of imaginative exercise would be to define what the best education system for aspies would be. How would any institution that was designed by aspies for aspies be?

In terms of socio-political structure, I would propose an elected executive with term limits, a tiered, consensus-based legislative system open to all citizens, and an independant elected judiciary with term limits.
Everyone makes & votes on the laws, and we elect those who enact and enforce them on a limited term basis only to prevent corruption & cronyism.
That way, if we don't like the way the country is being run, we all have only ourselves to blame & we can work directly to change it quickly.

As far as various necessary jobs & institutions in modern countries and there being enough of us to fill those niches:

If it's true that approximately 1 in 100 people are clinically autistic to some degree, then there are about 70million autistics worldwide.
There are countries with far fewer people with the necessary diversity to fill all of their job niches necessary to support & maintain their infrastructure & economies.
Even if such diversity is limited in the autistic population as compared to the allistic population, and frankly I have yet to see any factual evidence presented indicating that, I would argue that even with only 20% of the world's autistics (14million) you'd very likely have more than enough to ensure a sufficiently diverse population to fill the necessary niches.
This is because the necessary niches represent a very small percentage of that amount of people and even given the limitations imposed by ASD, the staggering amount of diversity you'd find in a population of over 10million all but ensures you'd meet the necessary quota of the right types of individuals.
Plus new technologies such as 3d printing, bioreclaimation, alternative energy (solar, wind, tides, etc.), and the new IT & communications tech, if employed adroitly could help to ease the burden imposed on autistics by tradtional methods of energy production, manufacturing, fabrication, waste management, and socialisation.

To make it happen you'd need 3 things:
Money, land, and people.

The first and the last you might even be able to get enough of, if you worked long & hard enough at it.
Land though, that'd be the trickiest part.
Your best bet would probably be to try to get a country with a bunch of land it's not really using for anything pressing, like say Australia or Canada, to donate or sell you a chunk of it.
Preferably somewhere not landlocked and containing at least a few useful resources.
It'd be an uphill battle and I kind of doubt it could be pulled off, but it's not completely out of the realm of the possible, imho.