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skyblue1
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25 Sep 2011, 7:42 pm

aghogday wrote:
skyblue1 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
skyblue1 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
skyblue1 wrote:
I am very happy to report that tranquility has returned to AFF

It is very sad to have lost the members that we lost

There is a much more peaceful feeling there now though


but perhaps an even greater understanding, in the ways, we can improve to interact among each other, on both websites.
amen to that


I checked out some of the threads, and there do seem like there are some civil natured people over there, that stand up for each other, regardless of acceptable views, when one of their own is personally attacked.

What I see as really disappointing, if it is true, is the message that has been given here, that in some of the members only area, some have been censored for standing up for others. That would never happen here, unless someone was personally attacking someone. Is that true?
The were several temp bans issued for continuing an argument, when they were warned very sternly not to. I did not see a outright ban. They were not censured for what they were posting, but because they disobeyed a directive from the staff


It was reported here that Tambourine man's personal character was attacked there by calling him an idiot, and publically calling him out on a personal judgement of his use of drugs; yet it was ignored by the moderators, until people started civily defending his character later in the thread; then those people were warned not to proceed in an argumentive manner.

They then proceeded in a civil manner to discuss and argue the topic of Tambourine man, and related issues to the topic, and were provided consequences for a civil discussion in defense of the character in question, the topic of the thread, allowed by the moderator to continue.

Seems to me like the most reasonable action would have been to close the thread, if further discussion on the topic was not allowed.

Above and beyond that, the previous thread that was opened to talk about Tambourine man was closed, as Duckfetishgirl reports, and another one opened with the same type of attacks that led to heated discussions in the previous one.

From what I understand it was acceptable for him to be attacked, but not acceptable for his personal character or his presentation of Autism Speaks interview to be defended.

Could you see a bias in that direction, that might have been colored by the overall hatred of Autism Speaks, rather than anything Tambourine actually did, before things got out of hand in the first Autism Speaks thread? That part I can view as a non-member, and in my opinion it may be the hatred of Autism Speaks, that caused the problems for Tambourine there and here, more than anything he set out to do by presenting the results of the interview.

It's almost like people were looking at him and treating him like he was a representative of the organization, instead of a neutral observer providing answers to the questions posed by the members at AFF.

The reason I am discussing this at length, is because it is what I see that can be learned from the experience that I alluded to from before; improving our interactions to argue differences of opinions without attacks on personal character.
I challenged him when he first came in and started with the AutSpks stuff. After I was ordered to stand down I did. I left him to sink or swim on his own. He sank. The challenges seemed to come from several different directions. It was the AutSpks thing that got it started. I get the feeling he is going to survive the carnage.

The current staff is mostly UK, so they were occupied with sleep, while it was happening, but handled it as soon as they came in


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aghogday
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25 Sep 2011, 7:48 pm

skyblue1 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
skyblue1 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
skyblue1 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
skyblue1 wrote:
I am very happy to report that tranquility has returned to AFF

It is very sad to have lost the members that we lost

There is a much more peaceful feeling there now though


but perhaps an even greater understanding, in the ways, we can improve to interact among each other, on both websites.
amen to that


I checked out some of the threads, and there do seem like there are some civil natured people over there, that stand up for each other, regardless of acceptable views, when one of their own is personally attacked.

What I see as really disappointing, if it is true, is the message that has been given here, that in some of the members only area, some have been censored for standing up for others. That would never happen here, unless someone was personally attacking someone. Is that true?
The were several temp bans issued for continuing an argument, when they were warned very sternly not to. I did not see a outright ban. They were not censured for what they were posting, but because they disobeyed a directive from the staff


It was reported here that Tambourine man's personal character was attacked there by calling him an idiot, and publically calling him out on a personal judgement of his use of drugs; yet it was ignored by the moderators, until people started civily defending his character later in the thread; then those people were warned not to proceed in an argumentive manner.

They then proceeded in a civil manner to discuss and argue the topic of Tambourine man, and related issues to the topic, and were provided consequences for a civil discussion in defense of the character in question, the topic of the thread, allowed by the moderator to continue.

Seems to me like the most reasonable action would have been to close the thread, if further discussion on the topic was not allowed.

Above and beyond that, the previous thread that was opened to talk about Tambourine man was closed, as Duckfetishgirl reports, and another one opened with the same type of attacks that led to heated discussions in the previous one.

From what I understand it was acceptable for him to be attacked, but not acceptable for his personal character or his presentation of Autism Speaks interview to be defended.

Could you see a bias in that direction, that might have been colored by the overall hatred of Autism Speaks, rather than anything Tambourine actually did, before things got out of hand in the first Autism Speaks thread? That part I can view as a non-member, and in my opinion it may be the hatred of Autism Speaks, that caused the problems for Tambourine there and here, more than anything he set out to do by presenting the results of the interview.

It's almost like people were looking at him and treating him like he was a representative of the organization, instead of a neutral observer providing answers to the questions posed by the members at AFF.

The reason I am discussing this at length, is because it is what I see that can be learned from the experience that I alluded to from before; improving our interactions to argue differences of opinions without attacks on personal character.
I challenged him when he first came in and started with the AutSpks stuff. After I was ordered to stand down I did. I left him to sink or swim on his own. He sank. The challenges seemed to come from several different directions. It was the AutSpks thing that got it started. I get the feeling he is going to survive the carnage.

The current staff is mostly UK, so they were occupied with sleep, while it was happening, but handled it as soon as they came in


I think so too. Thanks for the responses.



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25 Sep 2011, 7:50 pm

Duckfetishgirl wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Wendyl wrote:
Marcia wrote:
I was the person who made the connection between Mechanima on AFF and Zeraeph here. A few weeks ago when she was talking about the profitability of residential care provision for autistic people and arguing Autism Speaks and governments were pushing that kind of care, I recognised the arguments but not the user name. It niggled me very slightly but I didn't really give it much thought to be honest. Then, in the past day or so, when she started posting on AFF again as Mechanima I recognised her as Zeraeph.

It is possible, but I think extremely unlikely that there are two different women from Southern Ireland posting on autism websites about the same issues, with the same way of expressing themselves, and the same distinctive writing style.

Good detective work, Marcia! I think it's dishonest to use different user names, especially in the way she has. By pretending to be two different people, and doing everything she can to incite hatred toward TM. At least be honest, and use the same name, and then see if anyone is willing to listen to you (probably not). By the way, I see YOU are using the same name on both sites. How very forthright of you. I do the same, as do most honest people.


I tend to use different usernames now. I don't do it to hide. I do it because of stalkers. People do a search on your user name and see your posts at other forums and take them out of context to use against you. Then they say you contradict yourself. It happens all the time when people spy on others and find their other posts.


It was downright scary what i found on VioletYoshi. Those child free people are relentless.



Yes finding the same people at other places can shock you because you find out the horrible truth about them. But could it be possible we are taking what we see out of context because it looks ugly? Like what if the person was just trolling on that forum pretending to be racist or something or what if they were on a troll site posting fake things and doing humor and we all thought it was serious and thought that user actually thinks that and are actually that sort of person? That's why spying can be dangerous.

Not talking about VY specifically here.



fraac
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25 Sep 2011, 7:57 pm

Violet Yoshi really does hate loud children though. I expect she would kick them in their shouty little faces.



Wendyl
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26 Sep 2011, 12:13 am

League_Girl wrote:
Duckfetishgirl wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Wendyl wrote:
Marcia wrote:
I was the person who made the connection between Mechanima on AFF and Zeraeph here. A few weeks ago when she was talking about the profitability of residential care provision for autistic people and arguing Autism Speaks and governments were pushing that kind of care, I recognised the arguments but not the user name. It niggled me very slightly but I didn't really give it much thought to be honest. Then, in the past day or so, when she started posting on AFF again as Mechanima I recognised her as Zeraeph.

It is possible, but I think extremely unlikely that there are two different women from Southern Ireland posting on autism websites about the same issues, with the same way of expressing themselves, and the same distinctive writing style.

Good detective work, Marcia! I think it's dishonest to use different user names, especially in the way she has. By pretending to be two different people, and doing everything she can to incite hatred toward TM. At least be honest, and use the same name, and then see if anyone is willing to listen to you (probably not). By the way, I see YOU are using the same name on both sites. How very forthright of you. I do the same, as do most honest people.


I tend to use different usernames now. I don't do it to hide. I do it because of stalkers. People do a search on your user name and see your posts at other forums and take them out of context to use against you. Then they say you contradict yourself. It happens all the time when people spy on others and find their other posts.


It was downright scary what i found on VioletYoshi. Those child free people are relentless.



Yes finding the same people at other places can shock you because you find out the horrible truth about them. But could it be possible we are taking what we see out of context because it looks ugly? Like what if the person was just trolling on that forum pretending to be racist or something or what if they were on a troll site posting fake things and doing humor and we all thought it was serious and thought that user actually thinks that and are actually that sort of person? That's why spying can be dangerous.

Not talking about VY specifically here.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with using a different name. What I have a problem with are people who have several different usernames, and use them in a malicious and dishonest manner, to manipulate people. The person I am thinking of specifically, will actually log off of one user name, and respond to their own posts with one of their other usernames. It is creepy.



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26 Sep 2011, 12:24 am

You're behind the times, it's possible to post as multiple people at the same time though. Multiple browsers with each set on a specific proxy allows for multiple interactions without logging off. That or if you have siblings, friends, etc who have inactive accounts, you can ask if you can borrow their accounts to post messages too, and the suspicion of the same IP address need not apply (if within the same household of course). This has occurred a few times on the boards I post on.


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26 Sep 2011, 1:07 am

Nexus wrote:
You're behind the times, it's possible to post as multiple people at the same time though. Multiple browsers with each set on a specific proxy allows for multiple interactions without logging off. That or if you have siblings, friends, etc who have inactive accounts, you can ask if you can borrow their accounts to post messages too, and the suspicion of the same IP address need not apply (if within the same household of course). This has occurred a few times on the boards I post on.

I don't know exactly how they do it, but I know that they are doing it. And the fact that they would need to be doing it from a different IP address just adds to the weirdness of it. I guess you're right, they are probably not logging on and off of one computer, it's more complicated than that. I think this person has resources beyond the average Joe. I know it's a bit silly to expect people to operate within certain guidelines, and that they should apply to everyone. And yeah, I'm sure it's happened before, I actually thought only NT's would be capable of that kind of deceit! I don't mean that in an NT bashing way, I just mean that I thought most Aspies were like me, not really capable of lying easily at all. Much less on this scale.



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26 Sep 2011, 1:58 am

Wendyl wrote:
Nexus wrote:
You're behind the times, it's possible to post as multiple people at the same time though. Multiple browsers with each set on a specific proxy allows for multiple interactions without logging off. That or if you have siblings, friends, etc who have inactive accounts, you can ask if you can borrow their accounts to post messages too, and the suspicion of the same IP address need not apply (if within the same household of course). This has occurred a few times on the boards I post on.

I don't know exactly how they do it, but I know that they are doing it. And the fact that they would need to be doing it from a different IP address just adds to the weirdness of it. I guess you're right, they are probably not logging on and off of one computer, it's more complicated than that. I think this person has resources beyond the average Joe. I know it's a bit silly to expect people to operate within certain guidelines, and that they should apply to everyone. And yeah, I'm sure it's happened before, I actually thought only NT's would be capable of that kind of deceit! I don't mean that in an NT bashing way, I just mean that I thought most Aspies were like me, not really capable of lying easily at all. Much less on this scale.

Okay, how about this scenario? Quite simple, really. Set up numerous accounts on various computers- friends computers, public computers (Library, anyone? Where I live, they have several computers available for anyone at to use), work computers, whatever. Then using a cell phone with internet access, you could easily post, and log on and off from the different accounts. Assumably, there is a primary account this person uses (and I even know which one it is), and they would use their home computer to post for that account. Sounds pretty simple, except for the fact that you would have to be unhinged to WANT to do it. So you see, it is quite possible for a dishonest person to answer their own post with another username, simply by logging off and on with a different name.



142857
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26 Sep 2011, 5:59 am

Wendyl wrote:
Okay, how about this scenario? Quite simple, really. Set up numerous accounts on various computers- friends computers, public computers (Library, anyone? Where I live, they have several computers available for anyone at to use), work computers, whatever. Then using a cell phone with internet access, you could easily post, and log on and off from the different accounts. Assumably, there is a primary account this person uses (and I even know which one it is), and they would use their home computer to post for that account. Sounds pretty simple, except for the fact that you would have to be unhinged to WANT to do it. So you see, it is quite possible for a dishonest person to answer their own post with another username, simply by logging off and on with a different name.


Any decent forum software will tell you not only the IP where the username was registered, but also where each post was made.

The sock puppeteer in question is, I am sure, quite adept at using proxy servers.



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26 Sep 2011, 7:13 am

142857 wrote:
Wendyl wrote:
Okay, how about this scenario? Quite simple, really. Set up numerous accounts on various computers- friends computers, public computers (Library, anyone? Where I live, they have several computers available for anyone at to use), work computers, whatever. Then using a cell phone with internet access, you could easily post, and log on and off from the different accounts. Assumably, there is a primary account this person uses (and I even know which one it is), and they would use their home computer to post for that account. Sounds pretty simple, except for the fact that you would have to be unhinged to WANT to do it. So you see, it is quite possible for a dishonest person to answer their own post with another username, simply by logging off and on with a different name.


Any decent forum software will tell you not only the IP where the username was registered, but also where each post was made.

The sock puppeteer in question is, I am sure, quite adept at using proxy servers.

I'm sure you are right, 142857.



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26 Sep 2011, 7:28 am

Wendyl wrote:
142857 wrote:
Wendyl wrote:
Okay, how about this scenario? Quite simple, really. Set up numerous accounts on various computers- friends computers, public computers (Library, anyone? Where I live, they have several computers available for anyone at to use), work computers, whatever. Then using a cell phone with internet access, you could easily post, and log on and off from the different accounts. Assumably, there is a primary account this person uses (and I even know which one it is), and they would use their home computer to post for that account. Sounds pretty simple, except for the fact that you would have to be unhinged to WANT to do it. So you see, it is quite possible for a dishonest person to answer their own post with another username, simply by logging off and on with a different name.


Any decent forum software will tell you not only the IP where the username was registered, but also where each post was made.

The sock puppeteer in question is, I am sure, quite adept at using proxy servers.

I'm sure you are right, 142857.

Well, I'm not going to waste any more time trying to figure out how he does it, and certainly none on why, because I think it is unhealthy to try to get into the mind of someone as twisted as that.

I have a high opinion of some the people on AFF, especially Pika. But wouldn't it be a lot easier to not notice this kind of thing if a large donation had been made? Or is it that they simply do not know?

I have always disliked coming to WP because of all the advertising here, I find it distracting at best. But now I'm starting to wonder if it is the better way to go.



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26 Sep 2011, 7:41 am

Mechanima is a she. She's a friend of Amy's.



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26 Sep 2011, 8:01 am

I think this speculation should come to an end now. Baseless speculation on Tambourine's behaviour is why I started defending him in the first place.



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26 Sep 2011, 8:27 am

Gedrene wrote:
I think this speculation should come to an end now. Baseless speculation on Tambourine's behaviour is why I started defending him in the first place.
+1
It's pointless. Enough, already.


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26 Sep 2011, 10:18 am

Quote:
I AM CONDUCTING AN INTERVIEW WITH AUTISM SPEAKS


i never understand conductors. they wave their batons out of sync with the music.

i can understand that they must preempt what is coming up, and therefore they can not be in sync with the music.

i can not understand how the musicians can remain fixed upon their focus of what they are playing while also incorporating instructions from the conductor that are visually out of rhythmic synchronization and context with their current musical place within the musical sentence they are playing.

i could not do it.

i know what i said was not in the spirit of the topic, but this is all i could think of to say.

i could make it stupider by saying that if i was a musician playing a piece called "an interview with autism speaks" to a conductors instructions, i would probably ignore the conductor and therefore my tune may be more authentic.

everyone can only speak for themselves.
people feel sorry for me and i get upset (if i care about them) they they are upset about nothing, because i am actually happier than they are if they only they knew.

they would hate to live my lonely life, and they think i feel like they do.
i would hate to live a life of aimless obligations to social mores, and i know they do not think like i do.

it may seem that it therefore balances out, but it does not.
it resolves in my favor.

i would hate to be them, and they would hate to be me, but they do not love being them and i do love being me.

sorry i am out of context. that is where i live. out of context.
that is why i do not understand much in context.

please do not reply because everything i said was not designed to be responded to.



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26 Sep 2011, 10:41 am

b9 wrote:
Quote:
please do not reply because everything i said was not designed to be responded to.

Everything that is said is automatically assumed to be able to be responded to. So I can say anything sane if I like to and so can anyone else thank you very much.