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babybird
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30 Jul 2013, 9:24 am

Now I've been trying to read this thread and I'm not too smart but I can see two different conversations going on. It is rather distracting to me. I thought the thread was about trying to get some kind of organisation going yet someone seems adamant on switching the thread to something else.

I am not and will never be part of any organisation, club or society, nor will I ever contribute financially to one but to those who do wish to do this I wish you all the very best.


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Feralucce
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30 Jul 2013, 12:34 pm

the question becomes, who are you going to represent? There are many camps within the autistic community, cliques if you will. If you intend to represent all of them, how do you propose to do this? LFA, HFA, Aspies, Autistics, those that have already been discussed... How do you propose to represent all fairly?


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androbot2084
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30 Jul 2013, 2:17 pm

General disability advocacy is the only way to go.



WhitneyM
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30 Jul 2013, 4:39 pm

I think the expression fits the best for question.

"You can only please people some of the time. You can never please all the people all the time."

I would like to say the different ASD will get equal opportunity with representation. It will be a lie. Some people are better vocalizing there needs than others but if we can help most of the people then step forward. Also with ASD it is broad range of group of the people it will make it harder to see to all the needs equally. I think prioritizing the needs base upon who benefit the most will be astute.



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30 Jul 2013, 8:33 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
General disability advocacy is the only way to go.
general disability advocates would not take us seriously.


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androbot2084
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31 Jul 2013, 1:18 pm

The main objection to general disabilities advocacy is that autistics tend to advocate robotic high technology devices for people disabilities and as such autistics do not have a clue as to how much these devices cost and how impractical these devices are.

On the otherhand soldiers suffering from disabilities are considered heroes and therefore worthy of expensive robotic wheelchairs that can climb stairs.

Unfortunately there are not enough disabled soldiers to justify the mass production of high technology assistive devices therefore special privileges for soldiers ends up working against them.

Most professional so called disability activists actually get paid for the justification of denying services.



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31 Jul 2013, 3:25 pm

Chymistry
The aim which you seek to achieve is a noble one, and I hope that it will be able to achieve positive results.
I hope I can be of some help, while I don't have any money to contribute, I can contribute my aid as an intellectual. If your able to start the formation of an organization I could aid with in the ideational matters. An organization needs to be able to message effectively if it wishes to gain the public attention that allows for affective fundraising and advocacy. I may be able to give some aid in writing messaging.

There is also the matter which some others have spoken of, of a niche. What I would recommend for a niche a Makeleyen improvement aim. Currently the advocacy realm is dominated by two crowds, the master race theorists, who are Autism Speaks type people, and the neurodiversity people. The master race theorists think a certain segment of humanity is the ideal, usually the groups they themselves are in, and this results in the mistreatment of other groups, and neglects the improvement of their own group. The neurodiversity crowd rightly rejects the idea that the normal is the ideal of humanity, but incorrectly assumes that there is no ideal person, which is a ridiculous relativist notion, and results in inhibiting improvement. Since you have stated that you seek the improvement of the condition of the autistic, would I be correct in assuming you will agree with the Makeleyen view of humanity. The view held by Makeleyen Philosophy is that there is an ideal of humanity, but it is not any existing group of people, but rather the real ideal of humanity is a metaphysical one; that the real ideal of humanity is the ideal of a person who has attained a perfection of good character, one who has excellence in their moral and intellectual abilities, and is a productive person working to the society and the aim of the Mikrej. Building an organization that embraces this view, I would believe would be the best way to create a movement that would effect real improvement for autistics and humanity in general consequently.



Chymistry
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31 Jul 2013, 4:05 pm

yelekam you nailed it. I am looking to show that even diseased individuals have a place and it's not to be an ostracized place that is for those who are not "normal" because I don't believe in normal.



Fnord
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31 Jul 2013, 4:17 pm

@Chymistry: I hope you're not equating ASD with diseases - we're not ill, just "wired" differently.

About the foundation ... I can advise you now and then about planning and organization, but I lack the time for the physical work involved in setting things up. Legalities and marketing are my weak points, but research is part of what I do for a living.

Do you know of any people in your area who are interested, motivated, and talented enough to work for nothing for the two years (minimum) that it would take to get things going?



yelekam
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01 Aug 2013, 2:38 am

Chymistry wrote:
yelekam you nailed it. I am looking to show that even diseased individuals have a place and it's not to be an ostracized place that is for those who are not "normal" because I don't believe in normal.


I don't believe in "normal" either. Mainly because normal is a relative concept, and it can get in the way of the moral and intellectual cultivation of people. I believe that all human beings are capable of moral and intellectual excellence and all should have the opportunity for improvement. People should not focus on what is normal and what is abnormal, but should focus on what is right, moral, intelligent, and beneficial to the advancement of goodness. Those who focus on being normal will never keep up with the rest of humanity, for most normal people are seeking to be better than normal. It is better to focus on making people the best people they can be and seek to enable them to be as productive as they can. A good humanity is one that balances between conformity and individuality to allow the benefits of both and combat the short comings of each.
As to the matter of normal and abnormal people, it is important that people remember that despite our differences we are all human and share certain common traits in our humanity, and that people should remember the worth of human life and work for its advancement and combat attempts to degrade and bring undue harm to people. The Tekhst (holy book of the Diyinian Religion) is full of stories of people who faced personal and social adversity and through their commitment to righteousness managed to rise to excellence in their personal character and were able to defeat the wrongness they faced. And if you look around the world you will see such stories in every religion, culture, time period, and country.

And if you are impressed by explanations of my views; then perhaps one day my rhetoric could be used by your foundation to promote its aims, if you manage to get it created; which hopefully you will succeed in.