18 Aug 2019, 11:10 pm
18 Aug 2019, 11:13 pm
19 Aug 2019, 7:44 am
19 Aug 2019, 8:33 am
19 Aug 2019, 8:44 am
19 Aug 2019, 9:01 am
19 Aug 2019, 9:10 am
20 Aug 2019, 1:40 pm
20 Aug 2019, 2:05 pm
21 Aug 2019, 5:17 am
Mona Pereth wrote:
Pawing wrote:
The following actually happened to me the other day. I am doing a very small research study on Astrology charts of people with diagnosed ASD and was asking some people on line if they would like to take part, but to do so they must have a diagnosis, because the study is on the dsm 5 criteria and, seeing as it is only me without much spare time on my hands, will need to keep the study's complexity as low as possible.
But this girl, who had already explained she identifies with 'neurodiverse' in a different thread basically said she felt uncomfortable with my study because it is harmful towards the principles of the neurodiverse community.
But this girl, who had already explained she identifies with 'neurodiverse' in a different thread basically said she felt uncomfortable with my study because it is harmful towards the principles of the neurodiverse community.
On which forum, social media site, etc., did you run into her? (If you'd rather not be specific, what general kind of site?)
Pawing wrote:
Basically, she was diagnosed ADHD yet identified as Autistic because she felt they were both the same thing and I was in the wrong for addressing one type of neurological disorder and not another. I saw on her profile she had the whole LGBT thing going on, which I guess you might associate with left (or whatever).
Anyway, it is possible (yet not necessarily so) that she knew full well of my diagnosis because I had already mentioned it, yet she explicitly asked me, 'are you neurodiverse or neurotypical'?
Anyway, it is possible (yet not necessarily so) that she knew full well of my diagnosis because I had already mentioned it, yet she explicitly asked me, 'are you neurodiverse or neurotypical'?
If indeed she used the word "neurodiverse" in that context, rather than "neurodivergent," she was mis-using it. (More about this later.) Anyhow, the idea that all neurodivergent conditions are really just one condition isn't something most advocates of the neurodiversity paradigm would claim, although a few do.
Pawing wrote:
Now this question did nothing but confuse me because,
a) I hadn't really familiarised myself with the whole concept of neurodiversity yet, but I did have a funny feeling it was more of a social concept than a medical one so, as you might understand, having Aspergers, I simply don't tend to socially 'identify' with anything. I tend to think more scientifically.
b) I just couldn't figure out how to answer, given that she gave me two options. I thought about saying a simple, 'no', but didn't want to risk sounding cocky.
Anyway, I just ended up stating that I wanted to stick to the topic and to let me know if she wants to take part. (To be fair I wasn't aware of her diagnosis at this point but had a hunch she wasn't autistic because of her social behaviour - i figured this out later).
So she further sprung a couple of her beliefs on me, which I thought weren't really related to the topic and I thanked her for her input but unfortunately, didn't have an hour to dedicate to explaining myself to someone who wasn't really into what I was doing, but this must have pissed her off because she went on a rant and basically verbally abused me, while trying to get others on board to say how what I was doing was the worst thing ever blah blah blah.
She even went out of her way and found my business page to leave a negative recommendation, saying I was exploiting autistic people to use their data, without explicit consent from the people themselves, while refusing to disclose my own neurodiversity. These are simply lies because I am seeking this consent and I had already disclosed my condition. Not only this, but I am taking email addresses of all participants so I can send them more information about myself and the progress with results of the study.
I just couldn't believe it. Still in a bit of shock about it to be honest.
a) I hadn't really familiarised myself with the whole concept of neurodiversity yet, but I did have a funny feeling it was more of a social concept than a medical one so, as you might understand, having Aspergers, I simply don't tend to socially 'identify' with anything. I tend to think more scientifically.
b) I just couldn't figure out how to answer, given that she gave me two options. I thought about saying a simple, 'no', but didn't want to risk sounding cocky.
Anyway, I just ended up stating that I wanted to stick to the topic and to let me know if she wants to take part. (To be fair I wasn't aware of her diagnosis at this point but had a hunch she wasn't autistic because of her social behaviour - i figured this out later).
So she further sprung a couple of her beliefs on me, which I thought weren't really related to the topic and I thanked her for her input but unfortunately, didn't have an hour to dedicate to explaining myself to someone who wasn't really into what I was doing, but this must have pissed her off because she went on a rant and basically verbally abused me, while trying to get others on board to say how what I was doing was the worst thing ever blah blah blah.
She even went out of her way and found my business page to leave a negative recommendation, saying I was exploiting autistic people to use their data, without explicit consent from the people themselves, while refusing to disclose my own neurodiversity. These are simply lies because I am seeking this consent and I had already disclosed my condition. Not only this, but I am taking email addresses of all participants so I can send them more information about myself and the progress with results of the study.
I just couldn't believe it. Still in a bit of shock about it to be honest.
I'm very sorry to hear that that happened. Alas, some activists become fanatics and end up behaving in very counterproductive and outright cruel ways.
Pawing wrote:
Anyway I did a bit of reading since and it turns out that neurodiversity is a social construct, just as I had suspected, yet it is more to do with seeking equality for people with neurological problems in general, rather than blending them all together and trying to eradicate the diagnoses of specific conditions so that those who have problems identifying with their conditions don't have to.
Exactly.
More about the meaning of "neurodiverse": The term "neurodiversity" was coined by autistic sociologist Judy Singer in 1998. Regarding the above-mentioned gal's use of the term "neurodiverse," see the following excerpt from Neurodiversity: Some Basic Terms & Definitions by Nick Walker, September 27, 2014:
Quote:
Many people mistakenly use neurodiverse where the correct word would be neurodivergent.
Of all the terminology errors that people make in writing and speaking about neurodiversity, the incorrect use of neurodiverse to mean neurodivergent is by far the most common.
There is no such thing as a “neurodiverse individual.” The correct term is “neurodivergent individual.”
An individual can diverge, but an individual cannot be diverse. Diversity is a property of groups, not of individuals. That’s intrinsic to the meaning and proper usage of the term diverse. Groups are diverse; individuals diverge.
In addition, neurodiverse does not mean “non-neurotypical.” The opposite of neurotypical is neurodivergent, not neurodiverse.
The opposite of neurodiverse would be neurohomogenous (meaning “composed of people who are all neurocognitively similar to one another”).
Neurodiverse cannot be used to mean “non-neurotypical,” because neurotypical people, like all other human beings, are part of the spectrum of human neurodiversity.
In North America, Europe, and Australia, white people are the racial group that holds the most privilege and societal power. But we do not use the term “racially diverse” to mean “non-white.” “Racially diverse” means “including members of multiple racial groups.”
To use the term “racially diverse” to mean “non-white,” or to describe a Black or Asian-American person, for instance, as a “racially diverse individual,” would not merely be an incorrect usage of the word “diverse” – it would also be racist.
[...]
Humanity is neurodiverse, just as humanity is racially, ethnically, and culturally diverse. By definition, no human being falls outside of the spectrum of human neurodiversity, just as no human being falls outside of the spectrum of human racial, ethnic, and cultural diversity.
In summary, then: misusing the term neurodiverse to mean neurodivergent (i.e., non-neurotypical) is not only plain old bad English, it also subtly reinforces ableism and undercuts the fundamental tenets of the neurodiversity paradigm.
Of all the terminology errors that people make in writing and speaking about neurodiversity, the incorrect use of neurodiverse to mean neurodivergent is by far the most common.
There is no such thing as a “neurodiverse individual.” The correct term is “neurodivergent individual.”
An individual can diverge, but an individual cannot be diverse. Diversity is a property of groups, not of individuals. That’s intrinsic to the meaning and proper usage of the term diverse. Groups are diverse; individuals diverge.
In addition, neurodiverse does not mean “non-neurotypical.” The opposite of neurotypical is neurodivergent, not neurodiverse.
The opposite of neurodiverse would be neurohomogenous (meaning “composed of people who are all neurocognitively similar to one another”).
Neurodiverse cannot be used to mean “non-neurotypical,” because neurotypical people, like all other human beings, are part of the spectrum of human neurodiversity.
In North America, Europe, and Australia, white people are the racial group that holds the most privilege and societal power. But we do not use the term “racially diverse” to mean “non-white.” “Racially diverse” means “including members of multiple racial groups.”
To use the term “racially diverse” to mean “non-white,” or to describe a Black or Asian-American person, for instance, as a “racially diverse individual,” would not merely be an incorrect usage of the word “diverse” – it would also be racist.
[...]
Humanity is neurodiverse, just as humanity is racially, ethnically, and culturally diverse. By definition, no human being falls outside of the spectrum of human neurodiversity, just as no human being falls outside of the spectrum of human racial, ethnic, and cultural diversity.
In summary, then: misusing the term neurodiverse to mean neurodivergent (i.e., non-neurotypical) is not only plain old bad English, it also subtly reinforces ableism and undercuts the fundamental tenets of the neurodiversity paradigm.
The group was on Facebook and was a general Astrology group.
Thank you for taking the time to respond with this information, it has really helped me.
She ended up sending me a message apologising profusely and offering to remove the 'recommendation' from my business page and at that time I took the opportunity to educate her on her misuse of the word. Well, at least we can educate the world one person at a time.
So at least there is peace between us now.
Thank you.
21 Aug 2019, 3:26 pm
Pawing wrote:
The group was on Facebook and was a general Astrology group.
Thank you for taking the time to respond with this information, it has really helped me.
She ended up sending me a message apologising profusely and offering to remove the 'recommendation' from my business page and at that time I took the opportunity to educate her on her misuse of the word. Well, at least we can educate the world one person at a time.
So at least there is peace between us now.
Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to respond with this information, it has really helped me.
She ended up sending me a message apologising profusely and offering to remove the 'recommendation' from my business page and at that time I took the opportunity to educate her on her misuse of the word. Well, at least we can educate the world one person at a time.
So at least there is peace between us now.
Thank you.
I'm glad you were able to straighten things out with her. And I'm glad I was able to help.
22 Aug 2019, 8:11 am
From what I've observed, some of them will make talk about supporting those who are less "abled," but it's usually just that -- all talk. Since leftists like to talk about how they're big on empathy, at least in the abstract, they heavily criticize autists for not recognizing all the empathy cues. I've gotten much harsher criticism from leftists than rightists over the years, and that's regardless of whether they know beforehand that I'm moderately conservative.
All that said, husband is moderately leftist, and he loves me, so of course there are exceptions. 
22 Aug 2019, 4:24 pm
25 Aug 2019, 5:38 pm
31 Aug 2019, 2:15 am
07 Oct 2019, 8:02 pm
