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Stop Bashing Autism Speaks!

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MarcusTulliusCicero
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16 Dec 2011, 9:43 am

hyperlexian wrote:
MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
What evidence is there? Because they acted nice?

That's called throwing a dog a bone

i don't know if you're asking me a question or not, or what exactly you want to know.


What reason is there to say that Autism Speaks not nasty anymore?

I didn't expect a reply, but if you want to find something substantial then go ahead



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16 Dec 2011, 10:07 am

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
What evidence is there? Because they acted nice?

That's called throwing a dog a bone

i don't know if you're asking me a question or not, or what exactly you want to know.


What reason is there to say that Autism Speaks not nasty anymore?

I didn't expect a reply, but if you want to find something substantial then go ahead

i don't know if they are nasty or not really. right now, i am basically enjoying the fruits of their work (donations to my local autism society and sponsorship of AutismTalksTV, for example), and i am watching them to see what approach they take next. i do think organisations can change, but i don't know yet if Autism Speaks has fundamentally changed. i think that being mindful and aware is important - i am watching what happens with the organisation.


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MarcusTulliusCicero
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16 Dec 2011, 10:15 am

hyperlexian wrote:
i am basically enjoying the fruits of their work (donations to my local autism society and sponsorship of AutismTalksTV, for example),

No offence, but that's what I mean by throwing a dog a bone. Is there anything that is positive that isn't related closely to you?



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16 Dec 2011, 10:23 am

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i am basically enjoying the fruits of their work (donations to my local autism society and sponsorship of AutismTalksTV, for example),

No offence, but that's what I mean by throwing a dog a bone. Is there anything that is positive that isn't related closely to you?

i have no idea. other people in the thread have listed things that they consider to be positive benefits of Autism Speaks, but i haven't researched it myself. it sounds like you haven't looked into it either, unless i am missing something here - you are naming neither positives nor negatives.


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MarcusTulliusCicero
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16 Dec 2011, 10:29 am

hyperlexian wrote:
it sounds like you haven't looked into it either, unless i am missing something here - you are naming neither positives nor negatives.

With all due respect, if one actually looks further up I note a video Autism Speaks made that was based on a PSA for poliomyeletis. That's clearly manipulative

So, my question stands, is there anything Autism Speaks has done in general that has wiped away their sinister image? I don't think we have any evidence to say they have



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16 Dec 2011, 10:43 am

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
it sounds like you haven't looked into it either, unless i am missing something here - you are naming neither positives nor negatives.

With all due respect, if one actually looks further up I note a video Autism Speaks made that was based on a PSA for poliomyeletis. That's clearly manipulative

So, my question stands, is there anything Autism Speaks has done in general that has wiped away their sinister image? I don't think we have any evidence to say they have


Another question would be, if so would it be genuine or merely another PR strategy being adopted?


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MarcusTulliusCicero
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16 Dec 2011, 10:48 am

Nexus wrote:
Another question would be, if so would it be genuine or merely another PR strategy being adopted?


Do you have any examples?

The most obvious PR techniques I know from business are taking minor improvements all out of proportion, drawing out conversations to frustrate the other side and fancy wordplay to make accusations.

That and lovebombing, where you shower key groups and individuals with praise or money whilst overall maintaining a sinsiter edge.



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16 Dec 2011, 10:54 am

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
it sounds like you haven't looked into it either, unless i am missing something here - you are naming neither positives nor negatives.

With all due respect, if one actually looks further up I note a video Autism Speaks made that was based on a PSA for poliomyeletis. That's clearly manipulative

So, my question stands, is there anything Autism Speaks has done in general that has wiped away their sinister image? I don't think we have any evidence to say they have

i think you're asking a question with an answer in mind already, so it won't matter what examples people give.


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MarcusTulliusCicero
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16 Dec 2011, 11:07 am

hyperlexian wrote:
i think you're asking a question with an answer in mind already, so it won't matter what examples people give.
I make a conclusion with a question and instantly I am accused of something

If anyone takes even the smallest peek above you'll find me asking you to provide evidence of autism speaks benefitting people with autism in general that weren't you

I think the problem is that I am making a conclusion that somebody doesn't like, that Autism Speaks hasn't changed its spots
If someone actually wants to bring evidence then I am right here. But don't accuse me of not wanting to listen to others, that's just hyper-defensive



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16 Dec 2011, 11:14 am

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think you're asking a question with an answer in mind already, so it won't matter what examples people give.
I did write a question with an answer in mind, but that's called making a conclusion.

If anyone takes even the smallest peek above you'll find me asking you to provide evidence of autism speaks benefitting people with autism in general that weren't you
I think the problem is that I am making a conclusion that somebody doesn't like, that Autism Speaks hasn't changed its spots
If someone actually wants to bring evidence then I am right here. But don't accuse me of not wanting to listen to others, that's just hyper-defensive

people did provide evidence in the thread, but you are just not satisfied with the evidence (or perhaps you didn't read it, i don't know which one is the case). of course that's your prerogative, but i do think that since you have already drawn your conclusions before asking the question, then i doubt anyone would sway you.

where is your evidence that Autism Speaks has NOT changed?


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16 Dec 2011, 11:27 am

hyperlexian wrote:
but i do think that since you have already drawn your conclusions before asking the question, then i doubt anyone would sway you.
What right do you have to say that when for two pages I have been asking you to give me evidence? The only evidence provided was autism speaks benefitting you. I'm sorry to say, but that isn't good enough

Quote:
where is your evidence that Autism Speaks has NOT changed?
What? I think proving that something has changed is more important than proving that it hasn't. All you're doing is flipping around a question.

You know what's most annoying? You already accused me of something else and then instantly dropped it seconds later when I said it was untrue:
Quote:
it sounds like you haven't looked into it either, unless i am missing something here - you are naming neither positives nor negatives


Exactly why are you so intent on trying to catch me out after I said Autism Speaks hasn't changed?



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16 Dec 2011, 12:12 pm

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
but i do think that since you have already drawn your conclusions before asking the question, then i doubt anyone would sway you.
What right do you have to say that when for two pages I have been asking you to give me evidence? The only evidence provided was autism speaks benefitting you. I'm sorry to say, but that isn't good enough

Quote:
where is your evidence that Autism Speaks has NOT changed?
What? I think proving that something has changed is more important than proving that it hasn't. All you're doing is flipping around a question.

You know what's most annoying? You already accused me of something else and then instantly dropped it seconds later when I said it was untrue:
Quote:
it sounds like you haven't looked into it either, unless i am missing something here - you are naming neither positives nor negatives


Exactly why are you so intent on trying to catch me out after I said Autism Speaks hasn't changed?

well, if you have made a decision that Autism Speaks has NOT changed, it is an equally valid question to ask you why you think that. personally, i don't really care either way, but you do. i am not seeking to prove anything so it really doesn't matter to me if you think my reasons are any good or not. in fact, i don't even really have an opinion on the matter. i would think you would have done some kind of research (or read the preceding thread) before coming to a conclusion though, especially since you are saying that nobody has provided any evidence that runs contrary to your opinion, which i know for a fact is false (not saying that i provided any evidence as i did not. but other members did).


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MarcusTulliusCicero
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16 Dec 2011, 12:40 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
well, if you have made a decision that Autism Speaks has NOT changed,

Change is an action. No evidence of it changing means you can't say it has, and you haven't. I gave you plenty of time to give general answers, examples of autism speaks changing its spots.

Quote:
i would think you would have done some kind of research (or read the preceding thread) before coming to a conclusion though, especially since you are saying that nobody has provided any evidence that runs contrary to your opinion, which i know for a fact is false (not saying that i provided any evidence as i did not. but other members did).

I have asked you several times to produce evidence that autism speaks has stopped being bad where it hasn't included you benefiting specifically.
If the evidence is so clear why don't you produce rather than just say it exists? And don't just produce any old thing and expect it to be accepted. I mean something substantial, like discrediting the vaccine hypothesis rubbish that it obviously took in when Autism Speaks united with Cure Autism Now.

If there are any more accusations about me not listening to other's evidence, and a continued failure to produce any actual evidence, I don't think anyone will blame me for leaving



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16 Dec 2011, 1:17 pm

MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
well, if you have made a decision that Autism Speaks has NOT changed,

Change is an action. No evidence of it changing means you can't say it has, and you haven't. I gave you plenty of time to give general answers, examples of autism speaks changing its spots.

Quote:
i would think you would have done some kind of research (or read the preceding thread) before coming to a conclusion though, especially since you are saying that nobody has provided any evidence that runs contrary to your opinion, which i know for a fact is false (not saying that i provided any evidence as i did not. but other members did).

I have asked you several times to produce evidence that autism speaks has stopped being bad where it hasn't included you benefiting specifically.
If the evidence is so clear why don't you produce rather than just say it exists? And don't just produce any old thing and expect it to be accepted. I mean something substantial, like discrediting the vaccine hypothesis rubbish that it obviously took in when Autism Speaks united with Cure Autism Now.

If there are any more accusations about me not listening to other's evidence, and a continued failure to produce any actual evidence, I don't think anyone will blame me for leaving

i didn't say that Autism Speaks changed its spots, so i don't really know why i would provide evidence of that. i am not certain, myself. but you seem pretty certain, yourself, so i thought maybe you might have something to substantiate your claims? i am sure people would like to see something concrete to support your position.

there are other people's opinions in the thread that address the evidence you are asking for. i don't personally have anything to offer like that, but it's freely available to you if you want to access it. i can't speak to whether the evidence is objective or useful, but you seem to be discounting it. you haven't really spoken to that so i don't know what you have read or what you disagree with.


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MarcusTulliusCicero
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16 Dec 2011, 1:58 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i didn't say that Autism Speaks changed its spots, so i don't really know why i would provide evidence of that.
It doesn't matter if you have said a specific phrase. In fact most of the time this thread has been dominated by your accusations that I have not used evidence or have not listened to any evidence you produced that autism speaks has stayed a bad organisation. For someone who claims to be neutral? I don't think so

Quote:
i would think you would have done some kind of research

Quote:
i think you're asking a question with an answer in mind already, so it won't matter what examples people give.


Even though those claims are patently untrue when you look at what I have said:
Quote:
I mean something substantial, like discrediting the vaccine hypothesis rubbish that it obviously took in when Autism Speaks united with Cure Autism Now.

Quote:
With all due respect, if one actually looks further up I note a video Autism Speaks made that was based on a PSA for poliomyeletis

Quote:
What evidence is there?

Quote:
Is there anything that is positive that isn't related closely to you?

Quote:
So, my question stands, is there anything Autism Speaks has done in general that has wiped away their sinister image?

Quote:
If someone actually wants to bring evidence then I am right here. But don't accuse me of not wanting to listen to others, that's just hyper-defensive



I can't believe you can get away with saying that after this line:
Quote:
where is your evidence that Autism Speaks has NOT changed?


I don't know if you are seeing the constant contradictions you have made, but this dialogue is over

I personally do not want to be drawn in by someone who is constantly saying that I have done this, that or the other and who feels that saying there's evidence out there and that I should look for it myself. That is not a sign of good speaking skills, or of good debate. You criticized my conclusions and actions constantly. You bring the reasons yourself, not just fob me off

I don't even know why you assume I am biased either when you say 'I am neutral, unlike you'. I just came to a simple conclusion and I get seized upon with a barrage



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16 Dec 2011, 2:29 pm

i didn't actually say you had done anything, and no accusations have been made. i did say that i didn't personally provide any evidence about Autism Speaks, so i am not sure why you keep saying anything about that. other members had some opinions and evidence though. it's up to you if you believe or disbelieve what they have to say, but it doesn't negate the fact they provided information already.

i was interested to know if you had any evidence to back up your opinion. if you don't have any, that's fine. but it would be reasonable to think that you would have derived an opinion from somewhere and that you would have looked at some sort of evidence in forming such an opinion. seeing as how you are insisting upon evidence to prove the opposite, it stands to reason.

interesting that you seem to have decided on my opinion about Autism Speaks, but you are wrong. you're arguing with someone who doesn't hold any real opinion at all. i am open-minded.


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