Autist Micronation - supporters

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aghogday urged me to reconsider how I interpreted Inventor's post earlier.

I've done so, and have added several notes.

I think I let a few of his remarks that struck me as peculiar distract me from what he was saying.

Apart from those few remarks, I now think that he has some interesting ideas.

My apologies for having read without sufficient care.

I have an aversion to social engineering. I shall try to set it aside for this discussion. (I don't like people trying to manipulate me and I don't want to manipulate others.) I do understand that we are rushing towards a cliff and need to address some issues.

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Is it really true that those who have a talent for spacial relationships are very different than neurotypicals? In particular, are you suggesting that disproportionately few neurotypicals have a talen for spacial relationships? I have no idea - this wouldn't be surprising to me, but I didn't know that it had been established.

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I feel the same way about government or foundation funding. What they give, they can take away, and I fear that the gifts are given often in an effort to control.

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This sentence confused me a bit, as I suspect some of the phrases are terms of art. I would appreciate a clarification.



I found the phrase "and can be depended on to die within forty years" to be chilling. I understand now that he was thinking in terms of village capacity and turnover, much as one might with a restaurant (number of tables and distribution of seating times at tables). That phrase stopped me cold on first reading. On getting past it, I understand what he is after.



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I agree that group homes is too expensive (and inappropriate) for a one-size-fits-all solution.



I suspect that I shall fall into this category within a few years.



I agree.



I have often wanted to be something of a solitary, having access to people without any obligation to interact.

I am not at all religious, but I have thought that I might appreciate spending some time in a 'secular monastary', if such a thing existed. Perhaps as a retreat, on occasion - I'm not sure I could live there.

I've met few people who shares my main interests. I do not know what it wold be like to have frequent access to them - I might enjoy it but also feel pressured by it.



I can certainly see how having access to resources (and people) related to one's special interests and talents could be wonderful and enriching.



The same could work for several other special interest/talent subgroups. Not all, I fear, but no single solution will work for all of us.



I have heard this before.



I, too, am quite talented in some areas and quite deficient in others. For me, designing algorithms, programming, and writing are strengths.



I very much agree.





Quite true. I think many of us are held back, or hold ourselves back, from realizing our potentials.





The first sentence was one that distracted me, at first. There was a distance, an apartness in it that frightened me. I think I understand it a bit better, now, but I can't put myself into that emotional place.

As for the government, I feel very much the same.

I show more emotion, but it isn't always constructive, or even understandable to me.



My world is all about devising ways of solving some very difficult problems in computer science and math. The easier problems don't interest me nearly as much, and puzzles not at all.



I can not argue with you. Our predicament frightens me. I found your statement of the problem clinical and cold, but I think this has to do with how you think and write about things, and does not reflect upon you as a person (your personality, a bit, but most of us have quirks).



This confused me, at first. Are you missing a phrase between "post" and "life" (such as 'working')?



I do not ever expect to be able to retire.



I understand this much better now.



This sentence disturbed me on first reading, in part because of how it was expressed, but also because it is true.

The "they will make good lab rats" part really bothered me. Too many people have been willing to use others in that way. I admit that this part of your sentence still bothers me a lot.





I agree. It makes me sad, but I agree.



This is an interesting example and model. I want to think about this more.



I understand what you were after much more. I agree with what you have written. That some of it disturbs and frightens me is not your fault - it due to the topic and, in part, to how you think and approach things.

I am sorry that I didn't read your post with greater care at first, and let myself get distracted by small things.

Thanks, I appreciate your consideration of my opinion, and reconsideration of Inventor's opinion.

It is a mind full, I admit I have been in a state of shock. Once all I saw was the problems, and tried to ignor them, but Reality is that which when ignored does not go away.

I may dehumanize, but I am a natural, I was never involved, I see groups from the outside, and while I have been told it is me, I can see Unions, Christians, and Republicans, as a group mental disorder. While they may be groups, they run on a flawed premise.

I cannot reach all, I can only say what I see. Some which I say badly.

I call autistics lab rats, because I could never get university students. All the government is willing to give was just released from doing twenty on forty, and hundreds of thousands a year are being released. Autistics are rule following law abiding folks. The retired are wise to the game. and also unwanted. I take what I can get, and do consider them the best, for rebooting the culture and economy.

I am interested in how things work, so I took the Securities and Exchange Series 7 Course, Registered Representive of a Broker, I was the A student, but as I was allowed to take the course over again for my tutition, I did. I also bought a lot of books, and found I was qualifed for a lot more than Stock Broker. My interest was Underwriting, marketing new issues.

There is a path through all of the laws, there always is, for an Offering, that does not trade. It is a buy and hold, and buyers must Qualify by income and net worth. There are landmines, it is by Prospectus only, a written document that conforms to all regulations, and fully discloses the investment, who put it together, who will run it, and just what it will do, or you are called a Felon. This is a highly regulated field, and while it does take a Court to put you in jail, the SEC can bar you for life from the securities industry, all of it, with a letter. They do not have to prove anything, there is no appeal.

While they are all powerful, they are also helpful. I got my education, and the extra books, through them, and they are the good guys helping the good guys.

It is deep, I did not know if I covered everything, so I asked if they would keep me from being an accidential Felon, as you only have to send them a copy when you mail out the prospectus. I asked for a review before I did, and they complied.

I got the same at the Patent Office, the Examiner is there to deny a Patent, and also help you get one. There is a regualtion where you ask for the wisdom of the examiner, and corrections are pointed out, as patent applications cannot be changed, add new information, but what was submitted, can be rearranged, or edited out.

The system works for those who act in good faith. Those who learn the rules and regulations, ask direct questions, do get answers.

Most Prospectus are dry forms, minimal. I am a writer, I can cover the same ground with a better story. The same story I told here but with some legalese and words of art. Also less of the sales pitch. Investors and those seeking an answer to a looming problem, want clear and detailed roadmaps. It is words I can be held to in a Court of Law.

Wrong Planet? I can hold a tent revival to get my message across. The Government is $15 Trillion beyond broke, the problems of Autism are growing, we cannot depend on Congress for our lives. Autism Speaks has spent hundreds of millions just to figure out what it is and what could be done, and some good has come of it. Most is for better information for Doctors, early detection, and intervention, which works.

They have not been able to do anything for the equal adult population, and now identified, for a future for the children they have been studying. They have pointed out the need, but it exceeds what government could supply.

A lot of parents are the sole support of their child, and getting older, and group homes are the only choice, and expensive. They have to find a placement. One lady here bought her daughter a house, arranged 24/7 live in support, it is not cheap.

The State has never been good at keeping people, and Group Homes must provide for the most impaired, which restricts the least impaired, who if they had intervention as children, would be living an independant life. Those who live independantly, could be doing more than living in an apartment, if they had oppertunity and mentors.

I would give the retired the Aspie Quiz, just as many have lived their life not knowing what autism was, me, but it all becomes clear when explained. Now we are talking inhumain treatment, but we survived and learned a thing or two, that can be taught.

I see the old free range aspies as a most valuable resource, and something that will never exist in the future. While they were not like their parents, siblings, neighbors, they may find common ground with a random autistic mix. Bringing the two together, we can exchange knowledge. John Elder Robison has written about some treatments that work on adults, there is hope for us yet.

My view is those with the least connection to the culture would make the best people to change it. We would not be like any other group, and that is where new things come from, and what works will be adapted broadly.

The best thing we could be is lab rats. Another social, economic, model to develop, and study. Dying cities and spraling suburbs are not the answer, revitalized inner cities have been tried, it is expensive, wastes land the future needs, and is artifical. In Europe when they have a war, blow apart every building, they rebuild every village to look just like it did. They have a much larger population spread over the land while preserving farmland, forests, and scienic views. Our cities spread a ring of decay and dispair.

China is building model cities connected by high speed rail. Their model is two million, and a few thousand of those could house the entire population. This restores the land, and keeps it for food production. They are following the European model.

A village, is often within walking distance of the next, in several directions. We do not have a land problem, for we could all live in Texas. We have a land use problem that leaves many areas with nothing.

Frank Lloyd Wright wanted to build three pyrimids in Central Park, and tear down Manhatten. It would have had the same floor space, closer services, and the rest of the island would be a park. I see a village on a thousand acres the same.

I expect to start with a mixed lot. I have mentioned spacial relationships, Once they build it, they will get bored, and could build another, several hours walk away. They would like it because things learned on the first, can be applied on the second. Cathedrals were built over hundreds of years, which developed the building arts, then applied to other works.

Overall, my skills are overshadowed by guys with a sack of tools in 1500.

We are going somewhere, we can chose to leave art and beauty for the future. We have so much productive land, we neglect the smaller plots. All of the forests of Europe were planted. We log and mostly do not replant. We grow fast cycle pines where the land would support Black Walnut, on a two hundred year cycle. Short term thinking is killing the land, and us with it. We pillage the future we should be investing in.

We have too much money, excess labor, cheap land, time to bring in a landscape painter with a commision to paint what should be there.

Once started there is no reason to stop, more people need homes, lives, and the next thousand acres can blend into the first, wood, fields, vinyards, and villages with more art and style than I can muster. In the event my madness catches on, a County of villages, with all land made richer, productive, and scenic. Walks through the forest to the next village, and close enough to return home the same day. The highways have been built, goods can be delivered, exports shipped, and the life of the people can move on foot through the trees.

I see their health improving, less stress and more exercize, their mental outlook, doing big jobs empowers thought, and and more of that differance of thought and perception that produces new answers, products, inventions, useful beyond the forests. The potential for cultural payback is huge. All of our wealth starts as ideas.

No matter what we do, change is coming.

I think this is turning into an interesting study of liberal vs. conservative thought processes.

I doubt it. I am not so unimaginitive. I dislike both justifying large extremes of wealth and poverty and legalizing cannabis. Mostly because I am not a fool.

Justifying? Wealth and poverty exist, and at least wealth can be useful.

Nothing changes.

"He who subdues or surpasses mankind, must look down upon their wrath." Alexander the Great

As a Capitalist, I see how to best meet the needs of the Deserving Poor, those who by age or disability are disadvantaged. I seek the least invasive method to assure them of a roof over their head, and food on the table. I protect their Liberty as I protect my own, for they are one and the same.

At least in America this is the social goal. I think it is good, and not the best that can be done. A large government sending out checks consumes a lot of the tax payer funds that were for the support of the old and disabled. The government cannot provide the services needed by any one person.

The current method leaves all the people at a disadvantage, for they are spread through the country, and cannot combine their position to better their lives as a group. By themselves they cannot afford the rent, and eating, which causes them to have to live in the low rent district, which is inhabited by The Undeserving Poor. They become subject to the lawlessness of that group. Poverty is mostly self inflicted.

I would free the aged and disabled from living with low community standards, and provide the oppertunity for them to be productive citizens. I see them as a resource, that can better their own lives, self help on a local scale for all of the things government could never do.

I also see that besides taking care of their own needs, they can produce a surplus for export to the larger community, and in some cases, have the creativity to produce goods and services new to the entire economy.

Currently they are an expense, which we will continue paying. We will pay it even if they find a better way to live.

What is new is thier ability to produce and add to the overall economy, which the current system makes impossible. Most new products sell, for a year or two, few last five years. Most companies follow the same path. Our economy is based on Creative Destruction.

The aged and disabled can produce products that could not be produced in the general economy. They have no overhead, and only materials cost and their own labor, but sold into the economy create wealth.

While the GDP is near flat, the aged and disabled are a large and growing group, perhaps a third of the population, who could add a few percent to the total output of goods and services. A GDP growing at 5% leads to full employment. 1/2% added to the GDP would exceed the cost of maintaining the aged and disabled.

Nothing will reduce the cost to the government/tax payer directly. Projected costs are growing. What I am proposing is the aged and disabled get more mileage from the pitance they recieve, and a chance to supplement their income.

It will move them away from a higher cost of living, and as they have retirement and healthcare, some a lifetime of skills, They would be well positioned to attract business looking for a part time low cost skilled workforce.

Currently all of this potential value is being wasted. When 45 million war babies retire over the next decade, something has to be done to remove them from the workforce, or the young will never get jobs and develop lives.

If they are going to keep living forever, they need to take a new role supporting the economy.

That doesn't even tackle what I said at all. I said disparities of wealth not wealth and poverty. Wealth and poverty are ultimately subjective terms that change with the times. Also, the Nothing Changes comment, that's a load of rubbish. In the past much of the population lived near subsistence in Britain. Now they don't.

In the past the Lorenz Curve in the UK was far more unequal. Now it isn't. Things change. That's the nature of the universe. Don't like it? Go to another universe, preferably one without a time dimension before you make another impotent truism.

It has been the prerogative of well-intentioned dumbos to somehow paste over the reality of the world with badly thought out and unintentionally asinine comments. That sort of fatalism expressed in the phrase nothing changes would best be expressed by an Ancient Greek cult leader talking about the concept of hubris, and not a man who presumes to have a well-worked out plan for the future of a whole people.

Your hankering to a worn out ideological wailing about how extreme disaprities of wealth being the indicator of a good economy is the sign of an imagination that narrows itself. It's just plain confirmation bias.

When everyone is economically equal, they are all poor, and getting poorer.

No one would have a surplus to invest, and just having a surplus would be enough reason for others to claim it.

"Money and talent will move toward freedom, Ibn Khaldun, 1300.

That has played out in Great Britian since they turned Socialist, and the ambitious have found their way to America.

Here half of all employment is produced by small business. We invest in our selves, and in each other. There are no protected monopolies, hardly a company that has lasted fifty years, and that in name only.

The equality of Socialist Reality is that everyone takes for a living, and their demands for more are endless. They form a Union of the non productive, and the very thought of people being productive and keeping the result of their labor becomes a High Crime.

Our deserving poor, the aged and disabled are supported. We have programs of unemployment, for those who were employed, and food security for all. We do not support a large class of people who chose not to work, then form Unions to demand raises.

The wealth of America is new money, made by people who have recent ancestors who were factory hands, or dirt farmers. They worked, learned, and bettered themselves. Our whole culture is based on the productive person, staying involved, and we do not retire well.

I am offering a path to retire, and stay active, while leaving the space for the young to have their turn. It also gives the disabled, who have been excluded, a chance to learn and join the economy. It is not being imposed on them, it is a take it or leave it offer. Counting lower cost of living, and productive work, they can improve their economic outlook with their own hands and minds.

It is the kind of choice that a free people acting in enlightened self interest would chose.

It beats the redistrabution of a declining income to a growing population.

The Soviets caved in, China has taken half of the capitalist road, only Britan is left thinking that giving people their living will not lead to them taking more, and burning down the shops while they are at it.

150 years ago England was 90% poor, 50 years ago 10% poor, things did get better, but they worked for it. Socialist Reality does work, equality comes rapidly when the monied and talented leave.

Nothing changes.

Eurgh you didn't get what I said at all. Again you tried to frame what I said within an existing tired ideological framework with no reference to reality. I said no massive wealth disparities need exist.
Then you go on about how I must be a socialist with infuriating self-righteousness. You don't get what I said because imagining outside the box is too difficult for you. It could shatter your preconceptions.
It is funny that you say about how only several monopolies have existed in the history of your country. Well It's lovely to know that you are unequivocably ignorant of how criminality in businesses occurs. General motors, News International, the Big four of Oil. They may not be strictly monopolies but only a defensive fool would look at strict monopolies anyway because they happen so rarely. Microsoft even. Guess what, they have all been douches.

But monopoly isn't even why I came on here. Why I came on here is that you couldn't imagine a society where the difference between top dogs and underdogs ae a million miles apart without calling me a socialist. Of course I don't believe in socialism you twit. I don't need you to mindlessly presume that I am somehow part of a diametrically opposed force to you. What I am saying is that your attempt to presume that there will always be huge disparities of wealth is absolutely stupid. In the past much of the society lived on subsistence. Now they don't. Again you try to frame this change in absolutely mindless subjective statements like what percentage was poor. The only thing that makes large disparities of wealth necessary is the whinging of mindless nutballs like you.

If anything the existence of poor people is the sign of an economy that will eventually ram in to a wall because of its structural and social weaknesses. If it were the case that men lay around idle without opportunity within reach whilst in reach of grinding poverty it is the sign of a society that cannot utilize people effectively. Your sort of old fashioned kill-the-commies capitalism is based on weird principles of an indestrutible and unfathomably oversized economic hierarchy, one that only suits in this era trenchant anti-competitive CEOs, slick and unlovely dynasty builders, speculators with big bonuses and a horde of Americans from the economically disparate AND poorer deep south. Attempting to try and call my pointing out of your narrow-mindedness socialism is something many people from there would do and there it only reveals that they have no form of self-moderation, which given the atrocious levels of obesity, high divorce rates, higher level of crime and insistence on backward thinking is actually quite in evidence.

Also stop trying to sound expressive. Your nothing changes statement is an attempt to use laconic phrase that fails to actually say anything mostly because it isn't true. Everything Changes. Two centuries ago the wealth you see in today's elite would be unimagniable. So saying the gap wont ineveitable close as the economy evolves only suits ochlocracy.

I am not a belever in "Economic Evolution." That was the view of Karl Marx.

Economic equality through State Ownership of everything, no more private property, and those who labored and saved, invested, will now do it for the Glory of The State! They will continue running their business, but now under the direction of Worker Communes.

Where the productive become slaves of the state, people seek freedom by doing as little as possible.

Socialism works, until you run out of other people's money.

Then it returns to those who labor and produce eat, and those who depend on the government do not. All governments fall. As they do money becomes worthless, the cost of running the state ever higher, taxes exceed the profit from labor, savings are stolen by the state, for the war business.

There are only two paths, working for your own self interest, and keeping whatever you produce, or having an all powerful state that takes everything produced, uses half to support it's self, a quarter to raise an army/police to defend it's self from the people, and the rest gets spent on programs to control the population.

Government is defended by those who have been made dependant on it. They are lead to demand more government programs, so the government can steal more from the productive.

There comes a point where a dollar stolen by government takes ten out of the economy, and this lack of wealth in the hands of the people causes mass unemployment, the decline in value of all things, houses, savings, investments, till government debt is four times income, and more than all production in the nation.

It is a well worn path through history.

Karl Marx isn't the only one who believed economies evolved you moron. Even the most daft should realise that economies change because everything changes.


Oh quit with your whining already and stop trying to call me a communist when you of course didn't try to actually read what I said. I said large wealth disparities are a drag on economies. You keep trying to live in some black and white universe of two decisions, communism or capitalism. You have no sense of understanding about the issue I said because you have no sense of imagination and you only want the argument to go in your direction.

I said wealth disparities not common ownership and wealth distribution. Quit trying to mold the argument in to your pyoty-philosophical mould. Quit putting words in my mouth and stop telling my Grandma to suck eggs.

Inventor's plan is kind of like a model of the pros and cons of an autistic workplace. If you read the politics forum you will see that a commune would appeal to many of them. However, just like in the real world, there are any holes apparent in how you would keep everyone accommodated and occupied, and having a suitable set of skills for both productivity and to fill in personal living skills that some people will inevitably be lacking.

It may be easy for autistics to set up all the machinery and other equipment for productivity and facility maintenance, but people are not that simple and matters regarding living arrangements and social interaction will not work like a machine or computer and should not be led by people who have little to no understanding of other people. That will require someone with knowledge of morale building and conflict resolution. Maturity will probably be the biggest Achilles heel of the whole community and will require people that can handle them authoritatively in a mature manner to motivate them to keep up their agreed share of productivity. An NT psychologist might even be required for this task. This is why I think recruiting from ASD boarding schools is a really bad idea. You would be taking in a bunch of teenagers who have severe behavior problems and maturity issues, and even if they do not qualify for a guardian or someone with power of attorney over their financial or medical decisions, they will still need to live with someone to act as a parental figure for years!

In true autistic form, we have discussed what it would take to provide for someone's economic needs, but also in true autistic form, we haven't touched on how to address them as people with likes, dislikes, dreams, and feelings.

I bet the UN would be happy if the micronation included their headquarters and one of NYC's airports, as they have thought about leaving the country, as it's so hard to get in the country.

The UN couldn't run a treehouse club. You would be mired down in more red tape than you would believe and they would sell your best interests out as soon as someone with more money and conflicting interests bought off officials. And without the protection of being in the jurisdiction of the US, the UN/autism micronation better be very well armed! Oh wait, they'd insist you ban all private guns and send in poorly trained overseas thugs in blue helmets who have already committed human rights violations to come "provide security" for you!

It wouldn't be long before you were sympathetic to all the people that come looking to bag a blue helmet as a prize to mount over their fireplace.

This.

Am I the only one who can't help but think of Rapture (from Bioshock)?

I was thinking more an insane mix of free market and a neediness for 'NT's'. These guys are hilarious. HEY GUIZE! FREE MARKET+LOTS OF THERAPEE!