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PunkyKat
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15 May 2008, 12:13 pm

If that were my teacher, I'd smack them. Really I would. Just because they are an authority figure does not mean I have to respect them. They must earn my respect.



greenblue
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15 May 2008, 3:26 pm

PunkyKat wrote:
They must earn my respect.

Why?


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Warsie
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15 May 2008, 6:56 pm

greenblue wrote:
PunkyKat wrote:
They must earn my respect.

Why?


Isn't the same logic applied in an opposite fashion?


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17 May 2008, 1:08 pm

greenblue wrote:
I agree with RainSong.

The teacher was having a hard time as well and he was probably feeling stressed by that situation and probably somehow desperate, now, I don't think this is an easy thing for him or any teacher to handle, is it? so I wouldn't be so hard on him, and as RainSong said, likely you should take some responsability about what happened, and not blaming everything on him.

Teachers are human beings too.

If I was the teacher in that situation I wouldn't know what to do, and I would probably have a meltdown myself as well :P


Is this supposed to excuse him from demeaning me in front of my peers?


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17 May 2008, 3:14 pm

nontrivial wrote:
Teoka - I'm going to take what will probably be an unpopular stance here and say that I have to side with your teacher and your school on this one. I'm not saying that you deserved to be humiliated in front of your classmates, or that your teacher handled the situation as well as he possibly could. But if you want to go to a regular school and live among the NTs, you have to be prepared to work with people who don't understand your condition. You can't shut down and stop cooperating when someone is unable to address a situation in the particular way you want it addressed.

As an Aspie who wants to be a teacher (and has taught a few classes with younger students), I can tell you that having a crying student in class makes it impossible for a teacher to conduct class effectively. Whether you think other people care or not (and it sounds like some did in your situation, thank goodness), this creates a distraction for the other students and for the teacher. It sounds to me like Crawford tried to remedy the situation in the most natural way possible, which was to have you go see your counselor. (If I'd known that you didn't like your counselor, I might have simply asked if you wanted to step outside for a few minutes, but teachers in some schools don't have that option - school rules. And I would guess Crawford didn't know that you don't like your counselor.) You weren't doing your work anyway, so he probably wondered what the point was in keeping you in class. And he probably felt he was doing you a favor - a lot of students don't like to be seen crying in class. I know I didn't when I was a kid.

I don't know what you mean by "making an example" of him - for all I know, you could be thinking lawsuit - but I would ask you to try to see things from the school's perspective and the teacher's perspective. A school can have thousands of students (and a teacher hundreds), each of whom has a different neurological/psychological situation. Since we've learned about lots of different mood disorders, learning disabilities, etc. in the last few decades, more and more students are getting diagnosed - and that means more IEPs for the teachers to deal with. We can ask teachers to be sensitive and to use their best judgment, but we can't reasonably expect any teacher to be fully familiar with the entire cornucopia of disorders that are out there - especially AS, which means different things to virtually every person who has it. Similarly, we can ask schools to try to provide safer environments for people with neurological disorders (special classes, alternative campuses), or we can ask them to give us the chance to try to go to school with the general population - but we can't expect them to be "tolerant" of us when we disrupt classes and prevent other students from learning. Again, I know you thought you weren't much of a disruption... but as a teacher who has had students have meltdowns in his class, I've never seen a meltdown that wasn't disruptive.

It sounds like your teacher didn't handle the situation in the most sensitive way possible, and for that he's partly culpable, but I don't think that going to war against this guy is going to help things at all.


Well, my parents were teachers for nearly forty years, and they would never, ever have handled this situation as badly as this idiot teacher did. He made it much worse, he was the one who escalated it and his contempt and disdain for "different" individuals was quite clear. My teenage son is AS and I know full well how badly most schools handle it and how much they expect everyone to just be the same.

The teacher is the adult and the professional. He/she is supposed to be the one to handle such things in a mature, respectful manner and to know how to calmly and professionally react when students have difficulties such as this. He did neither and was extremely childish, petty and disrespectul. His continually calling attention to the situation was what escalated it. He should have left well enough alone, as chances are, most students weren't paying much attention anyway until he himself called attention to it. Most students get used to such things and aren't quite as distracted or shocked as a lot of teachers and admins seem to think.


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18 May 2008, 9:09 am

Another thing that I hate, about society. :roll:


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westernwild
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18 May 2008, 9:40 am

greenblue wrote:
I agree with RainSong.

The teacher was having a hard time as well and he was probably feeling stressed by that situation and probably somehow desperate, now, I don't think this is an easy thing for him or any teacher to handle, is it? so I wouldn't be so hard on him, and as RainSong said, likely you should take some responsability about what happened, and not blaming everything on him.

Teachers are human beings too.

If I was the teacher in that situation I wouldn't know what to do, and I would probably have a meltdown myself as well :P


I'm from a family of educators and teachers are trained to handle such things. They are the trained professional ADULTS and this teacher did not act like either a professional or an adult. Period.


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18 May 2008, 10:21 pm

Teoka wrote:
greenblue wrote:
I agree with RainSong.

The teacher was having a hard time as well and he was probably feeling stressed by that situation and probably somehow desperate, now, I don't think this is an easy thing for him or any teacher to handle, is it? so I wouldn't be so hard on him, and as RainSong said, likely you should take some responsability about what happened, and not blaming everything on him.

Teachers are human beings too.

If I was the teacher in that situation I wouldn't know what to do, and I would probably have a meltdown myself as well :P


Is this supposed to excuse him from demeaning me in front of my peers?

Of course not, if he was disrespectful to you, then he has some of the blame, but according from what you told, it is about the way of him handling things rather than asking you to leave or to go to see you counselour, and frankly, wanting him to accept that you didn't like the counselour, doesn't seem that it works with any teacher, however they could handle things in a more appropriate way, so is it ALL his fault? I wouldn't think so.

The thing that I see in this thread is the hate towards the teacher from some posts here, like he is an evil bastard that doesn't deserve a chance or the job, and that without really knowing the situation, I really don't know the person and the situation to really tell, but I think of the great possibility of this being unfairness here on BOTH sides.

You were having a meltdown and you were disrupting the class, I get that you were suffering and I am sorry about that, but you should acknowledge and admit that.

I try the give people the benefit of the doubt, I admit I fail to do so sometimes.

I'm also glad that some posters here have given a more fair thought about this.


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Last edited by greenblue on 18 May 2008, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

greenblue
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18 May 2008, 10:28 pm

Warsie wrote:
greenblue wrote:
PunkyKat wrote:
They must earn my respect.

Why?


Isn't the same logic applied in an opposite fashion?

I am not taking sides here actually. Just trying to see the fair amount of fault here.

And the "respect must be earned" thing is wrong, everybody deserves respect, respect is reciprocal.


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westernwild
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19 May 2008, 7:35 am

greenblue wrote:
Warsie wrote:
greenblue wrote:
PunkyKat wrote:
They must earn my respect.

Why?


Isn't the same logic applied in an opposite fashion?

I am not taking sides here actually. Just trying to see the fair amount of fault here.

And the "respect must be earned" thing is wrong, everybody deserves respect, respect is reciprocal.


People don't automatically "deserve" respect. If they don't act respectfully to others, then they have no right to demand or expect respect themselves. This teachers was totally disrespectful and out of line. My parents were teachers for forty years, with no SE training, and they would be absolutely appalled at this idiot teacher's behavior. They knew how to handle such things in a calm, professional manner that cooled things down and also helped the student. This teacher, however, continually stirred things up when he should have known better. He is the one 90% at fault here and does not deserve any respect.


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19 May 2008, 10:58 pm

westernwild wrote:
People don't automatically "deserve" respect. If they don't act respectfully to others, then they have no right to demand or expect respect themselves. This teachers was totally disrespectful and out of line.


Why is this a problem then? According to you, she doesn't "deserve" respect any more than she does. They were both disrespectful to the other.

Beau99, I get that from her original post. She talks about her feelings and needs, but she ignored the rest of the class and how they could have felt. If there is more than one student, regardless of how "normal" or "different" each is, multiple students should be considered. The feelings of one cannot triumph the feelings of the rest.

Really, the amount of finger pointing and whining on this thread is absurd. I fail to understand why some people (not including Teoka; since she was there, I can see how she would be emotional about it) seem to feel so strongly about it.


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Teoka
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20 May 2008, 4:16 pm

RainSong wrote:
westernwild wrote:
People don't automatically "deserve" respect. If they don't act respectfully to others, then they have no right to demand or expect respect themselves. This teachers was totally disrespectful and out of line.


Beau99, I get that from her original post. She talks about her feelings and needs, but she ignored the rest of the class and how they could have felt. If there is more than one student, regardless of how "normal" or "different" each is, multiple students should be considered. The feelings of one cannot triumph the feelings of the rest.


Well, it's hard to consider the other people in the room when one already has problems with sympathy, ne?

Unless you were there or happen to know more about my psyche than I do, don't assume that I was being selfish. That certainly wasn't my mindset; I was hopelessly stressed, anxious, and upset.


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22 May 2008, 6:45 am

Its easy to tell someone to get out of the situation, howevver teachers need to be more understanding of autistic students and their individual needs. I was once bullied for over 20 minutes and started to cry and my teacher refused to let me leave. When I have a meltdown i don't have the ability to know 'what is best for me' in that situation. If I were you i would want to kick that guy (don't really, just imagine it!)


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22 May 2008, 8:15 pm

Jellybean wrote:
Its easy to tell someone to get out of the situation, howevver teachers need to be more understanding of autistic students and their individual needs. I was once bullied for over 20 minutes and started to cry and my teacher refused to let me leave. When I have a meltdown i don't have the ability to know 'what is best for me' in that situation. If I were you i would want to kick that guy (don't really, just imagine it!)



He did ask her to leave and she wouldn't leave.



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22 May 2008, 9:04 pm

Teoka wrote:
Well, it's hard to consider the other people in the room when one already has problems with sympathy, ne?


One should probably take time to learn then. (Un)Fortunately, the world revolves around the majority, not the individual.

Teoka wrote:
Unless you were there or happen to know more about my psyche than I do, don't assume that I was being selfish. That certainly wasn't my mindset; I was hopelessly stressed, anxious, and upset.


I didn't say you intended to be selfish at that point. You were being selfish, but it was unintentional. However, you still haven't recognized that, and it shows in your original post.


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22 May 2008, 9:31 pm

Teoka wrote:
Well, it's hard to consider the other people in the room when one already has problems with sympathy, ne?

Unless you were there or happen to know more about my psyche than I do, don't assume that I was being selfish. That certainly wasn't my mindset; I was hopelessly stressed, anxious, and upset.


Hmm, I'm going to restate what I said before. Teoka has admitted that she was very stressed, and perhaps not thinking clearly. I've been there, and done stupid things during a meltdown because I just couldn't process what was going on around me properly. If she was having a self-indulgent temper tantrum, then yes I'd fault her. But if she was having a genuine stress induced meltdown, then she should be given some slack; I've had those too, and they are NOT fun.

I'd be less sympathetic if Teoka hadn't taken any steps to prevent future meltdowns - just because I might be irrational at the time doesn't mean that I can't plan around it when I'm calm. But Teoka has; she's changed teachers so she doesn't have to deal with a person she finds stressful. This is not the most diplomatic way of handling things, but sometimes diplomacy just doesn't work. Either way, she did take steps to help prevent further meltdowns, and that's what really matters.

To those critisizing her reason for being so upset initially, i.e. her friends not sitting with her at lunch, while this isn't all by itself a good reason for Teoka to have been so upset, I sincerely doubt that it was the only thing stressing her out. I found high school very painful; there were some days that I'd have a melt-down before I even left my house because I was so scared. It didn't take much to set me off when I got that wired.

I do feel that being vindictive towards her former teacher would be counter-productive. If he really is an ass, then the next time he discriminates against a kid with learning disabilities the school will probably be less lenient - people will remember that he drove another kid to tears. If he isn't, then he's probably already feeling kind of guilty, and behaving in a forgiving manner will make him feel worse. Being petty would only feed his ego in both cases, and make him feel justified.