Autism Abortion

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one disaster away from having a vegetable.......life happens and there is no predicting what your going to get when you decide to have children. Normal is overrated.

There is when you can test for autism



If I have kids I would hope that they can grow up with friends, move out, get married, have kids etc etc (if that's what they want obviously). A lot of autistic people do NOT manage that and are more likely to be depressed and havae anxiety etc. Why would I wish that on my kid?

Plenty of us do those things just fine and plenty of NTs don't.

Obviously.

Autistic people are less likely to though

Got any stats to back that claim up?

Just look in the Haven and L&D forum. I'm sure I could find stats to back up that autistic people are more likely to be depressed. We have social/communication problems, so it doesn't take much to work out we're less likely to have successful relationships

So you're basing it on forum posts? By that logic, I can say all computers are broken, because if I go on a computer forum, all I'll see is people complaining about broken computers!

This, of course, would be stupid, because people don't make threads every time their computers work fine, and it works the same with all forums - people don't make threads on here saying "I'm happy!" every time their day goes fine, they only do it when they need support.

So, again, show me some reliable evidence for your claim.

Source: http://autism.about.com/od/aspergerssyndrome/a/moodsasperger.htm

Excerpt from Source:



Obviously, you are coping well with life; there is no reason to doubt the possibility you may become one of the richest men in the world. After all, Bill Gates did it. When I was in my 20's, 30's, and 40's, I felt like the luckiest person in the world and for all practical intents and purposes, I was because I believed it. I also felt like the world was a fair place. At the time I didn't know anything about Autism, I knew I was different, but to me most of it seemed different in a good way. I pushed forward with every ounce of energy I had.

Your point of view is valid because it is based on your life. I hope you cope this well the rest of your life. Enjoy the benefits the condition has given you, but I suggest if you ever succumb to any problems associated with it, you seek help and try not to do it on your own.

The fact is many people on the Spectrum deal with mood disorders all of their lives and yes, some of them cope and are successful in life. Humans are social animals just like any other primate. The laws of the jungle apply to humans regardless if they are cognizant of it or not. Later in life, if you find yourself in the jungle, you may maintain your views, but the others may become a little clearer.

OK, that research says that autism itself comes with emotional problems. This, of course, is true, as a lot of us are confused by our emotions.

The article also mentioned us getting bullied and such, but didn't quote any research for that point, only for the biological emotional problems autism brings. And really, how bullying affects you depends on how you personally deal with it and how bad your bullies are, and anyone who's a bit different can get bullied, autistic or not.

With that in mind, it concludes that a lot of autistic people have biological emotional problems. This is true, but what we really need is research into how it effects us in the real world. After all, if you have problems dealing with your emotions but go through life just fine, it doesn't really effect you because you've learned to cope, as you and I have.

So, is there any research on how many autistic people are actually depressed as a result of all this? I have yet to see evidence that a significant number are, nor have I seen evidence that a significant number do worse in life as a result.

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/2027.42/44620/1/10803_2004_Article_374852.pdf

Research in this article includes a study that shows a 30% depression rate for Aspergers Adults and a separate study shows a 37% rate of depression for Asperger Adolescents. I've seen other people quote these studies; this is probably the best information to date and it speaks to the need for more research. There is more information in this article as to possible causative factors and treatment.

In general, depression, according to the World Health Organization, is the leading cause of disability worldwide and the fourth leading contributor to the global burden of disease. There is no question that is has a negative impact on a person's life, whether they have autism or not. I'm not talking about the minor depression that everyone experiences from the emotional ups and downs of life; I am speaking to Clinical Depression, when you go down and don't come back up. It is not possible to fully understand it unless a person experiences it.

Women are not superior to men just like men aren't superior to women. Unless it is rape or the infant is going to be born with no brain function (i.e. brain dead) I think abortion should be illegal. You have sex with someone, you should be prepared for the consequences, and the guy shouldn't run off and leave the woman either. I do not condone murder because people decided to be immature.

Murder? lol

You can't make abortion illegal because it always was and it will always be, it is part of womens' life. Women won't stop to have it and they will start to die again for this reason. This is exactly what happened in Europe before legalization.
Think about this: if anyone is ready to die for something, no law will stop him.
The only way to limit (not eliminate) abortion is womens' inclusion in collectivity life and their ability to manage their body through contraception.
An autistic child is more demanding than an NT one and it might be a mother don't have economic, emotional and time resources to raise the child. In a perfect world there would be someone to help us, but often we are alone.
Maybe I would choose to take the child, but I don't judge another woman that doesn't.

Having a look through that PDF now...



That gives me the idea the depression of their 11 (that's right, only 11) test subjects was caused more by family problems than anything else.




There's a bit of a pattern throughout the whole thing, can you see it? It's all the speculation. They mention quite a bit that no studies have been done in the area, then they use thinly related studies to patch the hole. I mean, how is a study on a non-verbal learning disability really related to Asperger's? It isn't, they have completely different effects on the people that are diagnosed with them.

They also say that autistic people who develop depression because of negative life events probably have genetic depression, which supports my point that autism alone doesn't cause depression. But they haven't cited any actual studies for that, either, though they do cite some for depression being genetic in a generic sense (not specifically in autistic people).



What, the same studies with 11 participants?



There we go, that's all that thing needed to say.

So, yeah, I've still seen no evidence, but I have seen a damn lot of speculation and a lack of actual related studies to back it up

1: The cost of raising a "special needs" or disabled child are wildly variable, and often subsidised, and sometimes are little more than the costs for a "regular" child. Likewise, there is NO test for a naughty child. Sometimes normal children are a LOT of work, and a disabled child is actually easier. A lot of criminal-minded little bastards are "normal." So are a lot of incredibly stupid children. Its variable, just like people.

2: Unless pre-natal testing can exactly determine the severity of the autism (or whichever disorder) then it is futile other than as a preparation for things to come. An autism test that simply detects the possibility of autism would include the whole spectrum, from "eccentric but shy weirdo" to "shouts at hammers." Given how many "normal" people actually show vague autistic tendencies, pre-natal testing would be a great way to kill off people who were productive members of society.

3: After the actual birth, a child can and will impact on the fathers life as heavily as it will on the mothers, financially, physically and mentally. Fathers lose sleep, They still feel pride when their child walks and joy when he talks. They still feel loss and have nervous breakdowns when a child dies. Plenty of mothers walk out on their children, abuse them, lose them or neglect them as well, so the down-side is unisex too. These impacts occur whether the child is disabled or not. So yes, fathers really should have at least a little say in the decision-making process.

4: "Disabled" is not the same as "incapable" or "burden" or "even low quality of life." There are Paralympians who can do s**t most of the "normal" world couldn't do if they tried. There are disabled people who get class TV and movie roles, make a crap-load of money, and have genuinely good and happy lives. Many of us even "contribute to society and the economy." Pre-natal testing doesn't reflect this.

5: I am a happy and proud father of four children (one AS, one Kanners, one "normal" and one as yet unclassified due to only being about 3 weeks old.) They are all differing levels of "hard work" at different time, and with hugely variable cost. (The normal one has expensive tastes in toys comparative to her low function brother, but neither cost as much as a newborn.) "Pre-natal testing" would probably have suggested we terminate at least two of them, and given that they ALL - save the newest so far - demonstrate some autistic traits, that's a death sentence for them all. It also serves to point out that the "normal" child is in the highest scoring percentages in all of her classes, as is her AS brother, whilst the Kanners child has developed an outstanding acting and singing ability. The newest child was pre-natally determined to be undersized and potentially at risk of great illness. Guess what? There is NOTHING wrong with him. Doctors get it wrong ALL the time.

How can they though?

Either the mother has final say, the father has final say, or it's 50-50. In which case you're back to the start if they disagree - who gets to finally decide? Obviously the father should have no righht to veto a mother's decision to abort, so how can they have any say ultimately?

btw I do think ideally the mother should discuss it with the father and hear his opinions, but if she doesn't want to, who can stop her? Legally it always has to be the mother's decision. There's really no way it can be otherwise

In what way would you imagine the father should be legally involved in the decision making process?