Aspergian Liberation Organization (ALO)

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IS Autism a neurological condition (neuro-diverse difference) or a developmental disorder (disability) or both ?

A clearly defined neuro-diversity agenda is going to have to be developed with a very vocal support base IF Autists plan to challenge Affirmative Action, effectively. It's simply not enough to claim a status without explicitly defining said status in this case: type of minority.

IF Autists can get classified as a minority (neuro-diverse) under Affirmative Action; I'm of the opinion Autistics can gain implicit ADA rights, too. The status of an (ethnic) minority qualifying for Affirmative Action has no effect upon their status IF they happen to be a (disabled) ethnic minority under the statues of ADA.

Basically, what I'm saying IS IF ADA establishes Autism as a specific disability category FIRST; i don't believe Affirmative Action for Autists will come to fruition anytime, soon.

TheSunAlsoRises

Orthodoxly argued. I will agree that a small portion of men have benefited. I will disagree with the numbers on that however, based on GAO reports.

Longshanks.

so if you think affirmative action is detrimental to the majority (i have no idea of these stats or if it is actually the case, but taking it at face value), are you proposing that aspies should be trying to gain employment and such... to the detriment of the majority? why do we deserve the jobs more than they do?

The neuropsychiatrist who evaluated and diagnosed me explained it to me as being both. Autisim is covered under the ADA. But what has complicated the situation is the eveolution of the "spectrum" and the main issue in dispute in the courts now is "Is Asperger's Syndrome Autisic Enough?"

Clearly this could be remedied with the passing of a simple law adding it to the ADA list. But support is lacking on both sides of the aisle and yes, I agree that we really do need to band together to really push this through. To do so, we undoubtedly need the help of the American Medical Association (AMA). I concur with you that we'd be in for a long fight. But the Roberts court would favor it - or so six of the nine justices have opined - four of which are conservative.

It can be done. It should be done.

Longshanks

A good question. Certainly a logical one. For the following reasons:

Even though I am an idealist, I'm also a realist. The simple fact is that while I am against affirmative action, I am realistic enough to know that it will never leave the face fo the earth. That being the case, I see nothing unethical about using it in our case because Asperger's affects the social centers and this is what makes it harder for our group of people to hold on to jobs. And it's no secret that Aspies are regularly discriminated against. Certainly some of the posts that all of us have seen are indicative of that. But most Aspergers people have higher IQ's. Their job performance is higher. Thus, an employer could truly benefit from such an arrangement - unlike an NT who may be truly underqualified.

For example, in the Air Force I'm known as a search and rescue "ace". My individual "find" rate of actual location of missing people and brining them home is 29.73%. This rate is from finding them with my own resources and limited info to go by. It's a rate that is practically unheard of outside of a full fledged flight or squadron. Bear in mind of course that there are other units searching at any given time. Otherwise, I'd be close to 100%. This deals with both front-line and at-home rescues (such as in Katrina). Granted, I was diagnosed in January of 2012. But looking back, it was my Aspiness that could seize on to details that others took way more time to figure out. I've found a lot of people and I've led units under my command to them and brought them home alive, and my men with them. In the same token, I may yet make lieutenant colonel, but I will guarantee that it will be as high as I get. Never mind that I've proven myself to be as capable as NT's, I will more than likely never see a "bird" or "star" because of what I have. And I am not that functional. I just work my tail off. Why should I be limited just because of what I have, or because I'm white and male?

Longshanks

have you been discriminated against?

More than once.

on what basis were you discriminated against, and how would your situation be different now if that discrimination didn't happen? you painted a picture of someone who is extremely successful.

The GAO report would not be accurate. Business contracts and business ventures would be legally in the name of women(wives). When I speak of majority men(i speak of those men belonging to the dominate culture); i am not speaking of the wide spread engagement of such practices. YET, it had become a problem.

TheSunAlsoRises

This will be my last post for the night. I've got an early morning. There have been two occasions with a civilian company where I was discriminated against because of affirmative action. There have also been a couple of civilian government positions I've applied for where the same thing happened. I won a lawsuit involving one of them. It was the only time I sued anyone. But the violation was so blatant - I felt it had to be done. Others followed after mine. It took place in the early nineties. In fact, my case was one of the ones that started swinging the pendulum the other way.

Yeah, I've had successes - in uniform. I started enlisted. Made it to major. I've been commended - even decorated. But at heart I'm like Cincinnatus, the Roman general who preferred the quiet of civilian life over the battlefield. And my body is aging. I'm sure you rmember Maximus Decimus Meridius, played by Russell Crowe in Gladiator. I can identify a lot with him. I'm married to a combat vet. She's a doll. She fought in Panama. We both have had flashbacks. We've held each other in our arms - both knowing the price we've paid to keep our country safe. People who aren't military have no idea what price we pay. They haven't been around to hear the whimpering in one's sleep, feel the cold sweats, relive the torment. It cost me my business to serve. That hurt too.

I was discharged in Sept. 2011. Fourteen days later, they bring me back in. It's reserve, not regular. They came to me. But I shall outlive my usefulness and then be done again. Cincinnatus is someone everyone should read about. He really knew what service and honor were all about. He was a statesman and a general. Had a lot of victories and then retired to his farm. Then, Rome entered a devastating war. With two armies surrounded and cut off, a messenger was sent to the man's farm - a centurion. "Cincinnatus! Put on your toga! You're needed in Rome!" So he went. He was made dictator. He put on his tunic, his armor and took up the sword. He led a third army to rescue the other two. Then, after returning to a Roman triumph, he humbly laid down his gold laurels, resigned his title, and went back to farming. Neat guy.

Well, enough of my rumblings. Besides, I hear my wife. I'll hold her, and she'll realize that she's home, and that we're still together. I started life an athiest. Was born and raised one. Became a Christian at 30. My wife - she's living proof of a God that loves me. She's quite a gift - a soulmate. As are our kids and grandkids. Have a good night.

Longshanks

In regards to ADA, I refer to Autism (as ASDs); the spectrum is no longer separated so this changes everything, my friend. Once again, IF Autism is considered a specific disability( cover under ADA) then it is going to be extremely tough for Autistics to get a minority status under Affirmative Action.

As we speak, the Supreme Court is getting ready to revisit and revise Affirmative Action ( my belief is to make significant changes). After the court rules( soon i hope); Autists will see where they stand.

TheSunAlsoRises

Last edited by TheSunAlsoRises on 14 Mar 2012, 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

I know what happened i can see IT. The way you speak of reverse discrimination and the way you categorized ethnic minorities.......told me a lot. BUT. i don't blame YOU one BIT. IF I had done all the things society had told me i needed to do in-order to be a productive member and a less qualified individual( on multiple levels got a position i was qualified for); i would be unhappy about it, too. I think people are getting tired of paying for something in the past that they were not directly involved in. A poor economy and limited resources has made life difficulty for working class/middle class families. period. As a consequence, people are demanding equal access and a semblance of fairness in a country that is suppose to serve ALL.

I understand.

TheSunAlsoRises

Not accurate? How? How would you know? What have they missed? You've made no supporting argument. Name your sources.

Longshanks

How would you not know ? Just because a paper trail is NOT left behind does NOT make it NOT exist.

I recognize THAT some who seek college admission will use a particular ethnic minority status THAT is far removed from their current status BUT there is not accurate account of that, either.

TheSunAlsoRises

oh, no.... i mean have you been discriminated against because of your AS? you are proposing that there should be affirmative action for aspies, so i was asking if you had any experience in that area. but what you have offered is interesting.

logically, if you were discriminated against because of affirmative action, then you could not have sued and won. because affirmative action is backed by law, if an employer chooses someone on that basis you would not have had a case against them. clearly you must have been unfairly discriminated against, but it could not have been a result of affirmative action. if an employer hires someone else who is equally qualified but happens to be a member of another race or gender, they would have the legal backing to do that, so they must have preferentially hired someone when they did not have the legal right to do so.

what i am not quite understanding here is that you went so far as to go to court over being discriminated against, and yet... you are advocating that aspies should be hired over NTs, which creates an identical situation. if you believed it was not fair for someone to be hired instead of you because of race or gender, then i am failing to see why it would be fair to create the same situation for NTs who are getting passed over in favour of aspies. it's a double standard.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/affirmat ... line1.html


TheSunAlsoRises