Saying NO to the "A" word

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30 Mar 2011, 5:58 pm

The repetition of the word "choice" is starting to make it meaningless to me, like saying "pencil" over and over again eventually turns it into an alien and inscrutable word with no referent.

The noun "choice" involves that which chooses, and that which is chosen. Without making these explicit, it becomes extremely ambiguous. Almost to the point of meaninglessness if, as here, people are using the word to refer to distributive and collective decisions, to decisions which one feels are not decisions at all and to decisions which one feels ought not to be matters which can be decided.

ci wrote:

The line is choice and no one can modify choice.

This, for instance, has been rendered meaningless to me. What does "choice" mean here? Who is doing the choosing? What are they choosing? What does it mean to say that (picking the first definition of the word I find) "no one can modify the act of choosing or selecting"?

ci wrote:

It comes down to choice regardless

As with this sentence. What choice? Whose choice?

All I can think of is, I can't really help it, that line from the Princess Bride: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"

At the very least, I do not think I know what you seem to think it means.

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ci
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30 Mar 2011, 6:06 pm

Choice is innate and must be respected otherwise folks will rebel. This is part of the formula of diversity. Some will want to be part of media awareness by choice and choose individual first vs. disorder and or disease connotation first. There is essentially little difference in saying individual with autism over that of man that is autistic. However the awareness is about people that have a disorder. There are some I know including myself that think of the disorder as secondary. To me it feels wrong to call myself and others a disorder label as an identity when human or person will do. With methods of awareness also being adaptation as autism awareness further grows all someone would have to do in a grocery setting is mention the word autism during a meltdown.

I do not think the vast majority would have a problem with person first preferences becoming more popular.

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30 Mar 2011, 6:13 pm

So, in a nutshell: to you 'Autistic man' is (as you said) "fundamentally disrespectful" yet 'man with Autism' is not.
Is that correct?

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30 Mar 2011, 6:22 pm

Only in context to when an individual chooses otherwise. As I said before folks can call themselves pink with purple poke-a-dots for all I care.

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30 Mar 2011, 6:27 pm

So to rephrase: to you 'that Autistic man' is disrespectful yet 'that man with Autism' is not.
Is that nearer?

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30 Mar 2011, 6:32 pm

Cornflake wrote:

So to rephrase: to you 'that Autistic man' is disrespectful yet 'that man with Autism' is not.
Is that nearer?

You will find folks offended by both. My solution then is to say no to the "A" word.

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30 Mar 2011, 6:46 pm

Ok, but so far I've found no-one actually offended by it - and that seems to be the general consensus here too.

What word should be used instead of the 'A' word, though? Or are you after using just 'that man' with no further qualifications?
In the case of someone with Autism and keeping 'that word' secret I can see situations where that might cause a few problems - where if the person's 'condition' (for want of a better word - it's late here and I'm tiring, Ok? ) was known in advance it would have been handled better.

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ZeroGravitas
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30 Mar 2011, 6:49 pm

So, instead of using the word Autis[m|tic] or Asperger's, what is the alternative? The full description from the DSM which this word refers to?

Saying "autistic man" or "man with autism" is much easier than saying:

Quote:

Man who was diagnosed as displaying the following symptoms:
(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."

Because this longer description is literally what the word "Asperger's" refers to. It is its referent. Saying "the man with Aspergers" is exactly equal to saying that he conforms to the diagnostic criteria for Asperger's.

In the exact same way that saying "blue chair" is exactly equal to saying "chair which reflects light with wavelengths in the range of 475 nanometers."

Attempting to use any other word for the referent simply causes euphemism creep. Because this new word refers to the exact referent the old word did. Rename the condition which is defined as

Quote:

(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."

To "fooble" and you will have exactly the same problems. Rename the color of light in the 475 nanometer wavelength range "gribbo" and you still have a chair which matches the color of the sky.

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Last edited by ZeroGravitas on 30 Mar 2011, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ci
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30 Mar 2011, 6:51 pm

Cornflake wrote:

) was known in advance it would have been handled better.

The reason you do not find anyone offended by it here is because people are conditioned to it yet at times state they don't want to be called a disease or stigmatized yet utilize the label as an identity. Where I live and in other places people first language is the policy and people prefer it. The disorder first priority was formulated by entities and individuals related to special interest for condition awareness, anti-abortion and anti-cure. The more someone focuses on a disorder the more micro awareness causations and macro awareness potentials.

What should be used instead of the "a" word? Pink with purple poke-a-dots for all I care.

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30 Mar 2011, 6:53 pm

ZeroGravitas,

It is a fundamental liberty to be rude and inconsiderate. I fully respect those rights.

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30 Mar 2011, 7:10 pm

ci wrote:

What should be used instead of the "a" word? Pink with purple poke-a-dots for all I care.

Euphemism creep, as I stated elsewhere. The word "autistic" is considered less offensive than the word "ret*d" even though 50 years ago the word "ret*d" referred to people who have autism. The word "ret*d" replaced other words which at the time were viewed as offensive.

Here, this is a good explanation of the process:

Quote:

EUPHEMISTIC CREEP

Finally, there’s another concern I have with inaccurate language. It could maybe be called “euphemistic creep” or something like that. The idea is that no matter how much we try to manipulate language, it has a funny way of wanting to stick to the reality it represents. So quite often new euphemisms degrade over time and creep into dysphemistic use. An example is replacing words like ‘ret*d’ and ‘disabled’ with circumlocutions like ‘differently gifted’ or ‘special’ etc. The problem is that reality stays constant whatever we call it. As we assign new signifiers they all still point to the same objective situation. So it didn’t take long before children (and adults) started pejoratively calling people ‘different’ or ‘special’ or ‘speds’ (i.e., special education).

And the point isn’t that we should necessarily continue using once-neutral-now-loaded terms like ‘ret*d’ or ‘disabled’ but rather that all language—both neutral and euphemistic—will always refer to an objective reality, and if people hate parts of that reality or are afraid of it they will always find a way to corrupt neutral and positive language with their hatred and fear. So the point is, we should try to be vigilant in ensuring that our energy is spent on changing real causes of inequality like hatred and fear and privilege rather than on fighting an ever-losing battle continually finding new euphemisms for old ones that have been contaminated.

George Orwell stated it best however in his essay Politics and the English Language, dealing with the evolution of politically-charged words in public debate.

Long post short: only a fool would think that calling autism by another word would end the debate about people who meet the diagnostic criteria for the condition we now call "autism."

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30 Mar 2011, 7:12 pm

Pink with purple poka-dots is just a humors insertion of fill in the blank. Yet you can go well out of your way to call names. It doesn't bother me. I understand the law it's part of my specialty.

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30 Mar 2011, 7:13 pm

ci wrote:

To be quite honest ci, I find that pretty offensive - the indifferent way in which you label people here as "conditioned to it". No choice there, eh? :roll:

Quote:

The disorder first priority was formulated by entities and individuals related to special interest for condition awareness, anti-abortion and anti-cure.

Sorry, I find that difficult to read without sniggering a little. Everyone, but everyone I've heard and read using the terms Autism, Asperger's, AS and all the other variants do it for precisely the reasons ZeroGravitas stated: they're shortcuts for long and specific descriptions and TBH, the word ordering is irrelevant.

Quote:

The more someone focuses on a disorder the more micro awareness causations and macro awareness potentials.

Is it unhealthy or wrong to be interested in the workings of one's own mind?

Quote:

What should be used instead of the "a" word? Pink with purple poke-a-dots for all I care.

And what difference would that make, since the replacement word would refer to exactly the same definition as the one it replaces?
And if the 'A' word vanishes altogether (which appears to be what you want) - what then? People with the condition remain living away all the same but now we don't have a word to identify them. How is that useful?

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30 Mar 2011, 7:22 pm

Cornflake wrote:

ci wrote:

To be quite honest ci, I find that pretty offensive - the indifferent way in which you label people here as "conditioned to it". No choice there, eh? :roll:

Quote:

The disorder first priority was formulated by entities and individuals related to special interest for condition awareness, anti-abortion and anti-cure.

Sorry, I find that difficult to accept without sniggering a little. Everyone, but everyone I've heard and read using the terms Autism, Asperger's, AS and all the other variants do it for precisely the reasons ZeroGravitas stated: they're shortcuts for long and specific descriptions and TBH, the word ordering is irrelevant.

Quote:

The more someone focuses on a disorder the more micro awareness causations and macro awareness potentials.

Is it unhealthy or wrong to be interested in the workings of one's own mind?

Quote:

What should be used instead of the "a" word? Pink with purple poke-a-dots for all I care.

Mountains from moll hills offence from defense and so on part of the nature of social conflict. Anyone that has participated in the forum has been influenced by it thus conditioned. Basic behavioral pathology. One could choose not to come to the site or remove themselves from it thus not be influenced.

With regards to short cuts that does not always apply. Additionally if someone does not really appreciate being called a disorder what is the big deal with simply saying something more mutually respectful. Some are interested in grossly stigmatizing indifferently and others bother to care.

With regards to a label and people figuring out ones own mind this is yet another choice. It is my belief it is unsavory if to much. It is also my belief folks should be more often instilled with the confidence of being themselves and drop the label because it's just a label and a potential distraction. There is no law preventing this exclusive interest or what some might call obsession.

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30 Mar 2011, 7:34 pm

ci wrote:

One could choose not to come to the site or remove themselves from it thus not be influenced.

That doesn't influence those who've come to their own conclusions independently. Or is anything somehow promoting the use of a shortcut like Autism also a baleful influence?

Quote:

With regards to short cuts that does not always apply. Additionally if someone does not really appreciate being called a disorder what is the big deal with simply saying something more mutually respectful.

So can you give me some concrete examples of this?
Both 'good' examples and 'bad' examples.

Quote:

It is also my belief folks should be more often instilled with the confidence of being themselves and drop the label because it's just a label and a potential distraction.

The use of a label doesn't deny an ability to develop confidence, you know. In the cases I've come across knowing what's going on is a positive answer and an assistance to gaining that confidence.
It's a label which points to a detailed list of specifics and therefore useful.

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30 Mar 2011, 7:37 pm

I am fairly certain you can come up with the answers yourself. I am kind of bored from sitting here and would like to do something else now. I think I will be going to the movies a bit later.

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