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ci
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19 Aug 2011, 3:04 am

androbot2084 wrote:
Just integrating autistics in the mainstream education does not solve the problem because the prerequisite hierarchy of teaching mathematics will always hold the autistic back. What we need to do is fundamentally change the way mathematics are taught so as to encourage autistic creativity with much more emphasis on advanced mathematical concepts and inventions as well as learning basic skills. Presently autistics are regarded as a disease and our insightful questions are regarded as a disruption to the education of neurotypicals. So rather than let our genius and creativity develop they put us in these special education classes in order to dumb us down so we are not a threat to the established order.


Taking things way to personally, imagining a persecution is intended and in the pursuit I'd just believe you because others have it better then myself and you. You got to know that people with autism are not dumb yourself. Many times we have a different way of thinking. You being well integrated least in comparison to some or more others with autism should realize that being treated wrongly due to difference is wrong. In turn you want to accuse others of vast wrong as if they are really wanting to punish me and by doing so are treating them wrong. Well while I am not a genius but simply thoughtful I thought to point it out that I am not so gullible to take your word for it and did consult the part of my brain that handles the common sense and rationalism + speculation = where is the absolute fact reasoning.


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19 Aug 2011, 3:23 am

Educators actually believe that the only way to teach mathematics is through a process of a step by step instructions where the fundamentals are mastered first before more advanced concepts are introduced. Any challenge to this institutionalized learning process is a challenge to the very common sense of the educators themselves. Special education teachers are even more adamant that fundamental basic concepts must be taught first. Autistic self advocacy means that autistics themselves will become special education teachers and will revolutionize the system.



ci
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19 Aug 2011, 3:25 am

Maybe.. Likely more probable to become such professionals if they are not so hardcore. Having you as my teacher would simply be day after day lessons in anti-societal propaganda leading me into a dark depression as a way to cope with society. This instead of more positive coping mechanisms. I am just being honest with what I think of the philosophy.


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19 Aug 2011, 3:50 am

It's not that but rather it is the fear of the unknown. When most people contemplate the study of advanced calculus in 4 dimensions it becomes so advanced that it is considered impossible and absurd. Imagine if you lived in a world that was completely flat. You would think that flat is the only space and reality there was.



ci
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19 Aug 2011, 3:53 am

Not really what I was speaking about but it does remind me of the movie A Beautiful Mind and a lesson. Math will not solve all the problems.


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19 Aug 2011, 8:06 am

I hate to think that I am somehow supposed to have some sort of tenuous ideological relation to such a racist as androbot. I think anyoen who reads this post will agree with me when they say that proving androbot wrong is unwise because nothing he says ever makes any sense and it nothing more or less than deep seated bigotry.



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19 Aug 2011, 11:22 am

Not really bigotry because I steal a lot of ideas and inspiration from neurotypicals. So in that way I am like a parot. But what I do is amplify those ideas to a higher level so now that makes me a bigot? The neurotypical could just as well claim superiority over me because they were the ones that came up with the original idea.



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19 Aug 2011, 11:27 am

androbot2084 wrote:
Not really bigotry because I steal a lot of ideas and inspiration from neurotypicals. So in that way I am like a parot. But what I do is amplify those ideas to a higher level so now that makes me a bigot? The neurotypical could just as well claim superiority over me because they were the ones that came up with the original idea.

What? So you basically think that since all NTs think the same and they are bigoted towards us then they must face the same feelings from us. That is about the most stupid version of an eye for an eye I have ever heard. Also shows how 'superior' you are if all you ever do is ape the worst things of the people you hate. Also if you copy someone's bigotry, THEN THAT STILL MAKES YOU A BIGOT.



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19 Aug 2011, 12:06 pm

You are either twisting or you have not understood what I have said. I was referring to a good or creative idea from a neurotypical.



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19 Aug 2011, 1:14 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
The number 1 rule is never let a neurotypical assess the mathematical capability of an autistic. A neurotypical will pretend that they know how to assess your gifts and weaknesses but they do not have a clue.

The number 2 rule is never depend on brute memorization. Einstein could never remember his own phone number so it is nonsense to hold an autistic student back for failing to memorize a multiplication table. Just learn how to look up the information if you cannot memorize it.

The number 3 rule is to simplify the mathematics. Base the mathematics on rational whole numbers. Forget about calculating Pi to the millionth digit. The rational aproximation of Pi is 3.

The number 4 rule is do not fly blind. A pilot can fly at night relying only on his instruments but the autistic must have visual representations of the mathematics.


I never did get why I could not just have a copy of the multiplication tables sitting next to me when doing multiplication problems why not use availible information? My main issue with math is I cannot memorize any of it so I have to have instructions of how exactly to go about the problem in order to complete it...so math tests did not go very well for me, if they had been open book and open note I probably could have done better.

In short I cannot memorize the steps, but I can do them if I have the instructions......hmm maybe I don't suck at math, but just can't retain any of the knowledge or memorize the steps.



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19 Aug 2011, 1:29 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Just integrating autistics in the mainstream education does not solve the problem because the prerequisite hierarchy of teaching mathematics will always hold the autistic back. What we need to do is fundamentally change the way mathematics are taught so as to encourage autistic creativity with much more emphasis on advanced mathematical concepts and inventions as well as learning basic skills. Presently autistics are regarded as a disease and our insightful questions are regarded as a disruption to the education of neurotypicals. So rather than let our genius and creativity develop they put us in these special education classes in order to dumb us down so we are not a threat to the established order.


It was intresting, sometimes I purposely did worse than I could at school work so I did not seem 'too' smart and would always play it off like the things that were actually difficult for me were not as difficult so they would not put me in special education classes. Because for some reason even as a child I did not trust the system I thought there were people in control who would manipulate me, take advantage of me and try to dumb me down......so I figured it was in my best intrest to quietly get through highschool without making my intelligence or difficulties too obvious. I was rather paranoid and even thought there were hidden camras in the hallways when I was 7.

Turns out those feelings were not to far off considering they do, do those things. another thing is of course I was not diagnosed with anything so they did not know I had AS.



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19 Aug 2011, 1:33 pm

Gedrene wrote:
I hate to think that I am somehow supposed to have some sort of tenuous ideological relation to such a racist as androbot. I think anyoen who reads this post will agree with me when they say that proving androbot wrong is unwise because nothing he says ever makes any sense and it nothing more or less than deep seated bigotry.

How is androbot being a racist exactly?



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19 Aug 2011, 2:02 pm

You probably do not suck at math but rather suck at doing math tests. Teachers want to hold students accountable and having access to multiplication tables , calculators or computers means to them that you are cheating and really do not know the material. Hell I don't remember 100 percent of the multiplication tables and sometimes find myself adding numbers to get the results.
Unfortunately the math education system is very hierarchical and you do not move on without either passing the class or scoring high on a placement test. The only way to move forward is to study advanced mathematical concepts such as calculus on your own time. Thankfully there exist popularized books on these advanced topics that were written so that the average person could understand it.



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19 Aug 2011, 2:33 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
You probably do not suck at math but rather suck at doing math tests. Teachers want to hold students accountable and having access to multiplication tables , calculators or computers means to them that you are cheating and really do not know the material. Hell I don't remember 100 percent of the multiplication tables and sometimes find myself adding numbers to get the results.
Unfortunately the math education system is very hierarchical and you do not move on without either passing the class or scoring high on a placement test. The only way to move forward is to study advanced mathematical concepts such as calculus on your own time. Thankfully there exist popularized books on these advanced topics that were written so that the average person could understand it.


Well I don't see it as cheating......what am I cheating about, the fact that i need the instructions in front of me to complete a math problem? that is the main issue I always had I don't retain the knowledge or memorize any of it but I can complete a problem if I have the directions as to how to do it. But yeah I never did like that attitude at school...I am not intrested in calculus but I still might have to at least pass the college math requirement.



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19 Aug 2011, 2:40 pm

The Americans with Disabilities Act requires that teachers give students with disabilities or students regarded as having a disability reasonable accommodations. If your teacher fails to give these accommodations you c an file a complaint.



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19 Aug 2011, 2:41 pm

ci wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Just integrating autistics in the mainstream education does not solve the problem because the prerequisite hierarchy of teaching mathematics will always hold the autistic back. What we need to do is fundamentally change the way mathematics are taught so as to encourage autistic creativity with much more emphasis on advanced mathematical concepts and inventions as well as learning basic skills. Presently autistics are regarded as a disease and our insightful questions are regarded as a disruption to the education of neurotypicals. So rather than let our genius and creativity develop they put us in these special education classes in order to dumb us down so we are not a threat to the established order.


Taking things way to personally, imagining a persecution is intended and in the pursuit I'd just believe you because others have it better then myself and you. You got to know that people with autism are not dumb yourself. Many times we have a different way of thinking. You being well integrated least in comparison to some or more others with autism should realize that being treated wrongly due to difference is wrong. In turn you want to accuse others of vast wrong as if they are really wanting to punish me and by doing so are treating them wrong. Well while I am not a genius but simply thoughtful I thought to point it out that I am not so gullible to take your word for it and did consult the part of my brain that handles the common sense and rationalism + speculation = where is the absolute fact reasoning.


How would it be wrong to take into consideration that people with autism might not learn the same way everyone else does...and thus adjust the methods? though I was not diagnosed as a child I knew I had different ways of learning and found school rather frusterating because I did not really learn anything. I basically did the bare minimum to pass unless I really liked an assignment but I did not get much out of it. College is a bit better especially sociology and psychology because I actually feel like I am learning something as they are more open to different teaching methods then you find in public school.

Treating people in a manner that acknowledges their differences is not nessisarly treating them wrong, in fact I have always gotten irritated when I run into a situation where someone has the same expections for me as they might have for someone totally different with no regards to the fact I sometimes have different skills or ways of going about things...makes me feel like they don't care. Kind of like if I say I have depression and someone tells me to get over it with no regards to the fact you cannot just get over the mental illness depression like you can when you just feel sad for an actual reason.