Page 7 of 10 [ 147 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

NewportBeachDude
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

19 Feb 2008, 12:42 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Here's my issue. This is a 30 second video of the vice president of Autism Speaks, and it sounds to me like she would want to force the cure. She also demonizes autism to the point of making it sound like we deserve to die if we don't have a cure. Maybe you haven't seen the video, so maybe you have misconceptions about what the organization is actually about. So, just something to consider. You can have your opinion, but if you haven't seen this maybe you haven't heard the whole story. That woman is a Class A b***h.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NTfZzS9b8[/youtube][/quote]




Cockney Rebel, the mother is not a b***h. She's sharing with the world that she's despondant over her situation. Everyone's seen this video where she says she wanted to end it all. But, have you ever considered that someone like that may be the BEST PERSON to speak for Aspergians who have come to the end of their ropes? Or, other parents who didn't have hope and nobody to turn to. Look at all the threads on this board where people are despondant, talking about life not meaning anything, saying they were suicidal or had thoughts of that. This mother can relate to those people. She knows what that's like. She understands that grief and pain.

So, while you're putting her down, I say what better person to advocate for changes in society...a mother who's been at the edge of a cliff overlooking it, not wanting another human being to ever be in that same spot? Now she's in a position to change things not just for her daughter, but for everyone on the spectrum.

Again, walk a mile in someone else's shoes and see if they fit.

Peace.



GoatOnFire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,986
Location: Den of the ecdysiasts

19 Feb 2008, 2:07 am

NewportBeachDude wrote:
Cockney Rebel, the mother is not a b***h.


Just for your FYI, that particular mother is the vice president of Autism Speaks. Not setting a very good example, not all mothers have an NT kid to keep them from driving off a bridge. And quite a b***h, too, if you notice the daughter in earshot in the background. Don't assume that just because the little girl is autistic doesn't mean that she caught more of that than it seemed. I never seem to register things that I actually catch.


_________________
I will befriend the friendless, help the helpless, and defeat... the feetless?


anbuend
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,039

19 Feb 2008, 2:16 am

NewportBeachDude wrote:
Questions like this show the vast chasm that exists between Aspergians and Autistism, which is why you need to leave the Autistic organizations to speak for them and create ones of your own.


Questions like that don't show the chasm that exists between Asperger's and autism. They do show the difference between an autistic person and a parent of an autistic person. Autistic people remember our childhoods from our own perspectives, not from the perspectives of our parents fighting for services for us at an age when we might not have even understood what services or doctors were. Your immediate conclusion that a tendency to not really know what medical services needed to change in our early childhoods somehow shows the vast chasm between Asperger's and autism... that conclusion seems more to show that you can't even take the perspective of a non-parent autistic person long enough to realize that we weren't the ones fighting for medical services when we were infants and toddlers, and therefore aren't necessarily going to know everything about what was being fought for.

Plus, there are a ton of different medical things parents can want to change. Some of them don't want to deal with the usual medical establishment at all, some of them want to get vaccines totally removed and/or reformed, some want to get ABA covered by insurance, etc. And some of them totally disagree to the point where their viewpoints about what medicine should be doing are mutually exclusive. Asking which particular thing was meant might show awareness of the amount of different things parents might ask for (and therefore curiosity about which one you meant), rather than somehow lack of awareness of what autistic people who aren't classified as AS experience.


_________________
"In my world it's a place of patterns and feel. In my world it's a haven for what is real. It's my world, nobody can steal it, but people like me, we live in the shadows." -Donna Williams


ixochiyo_yohuallan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 500
Location: vilnius (lithuania)

19 Feb 2008, 3:26 am

NewportBeachDude wrote:
She's sharing with the world that she's despondant over her situation. Everyone's seen this video where she says she wanted to end it all. But, have you ever considered that someone like that may be the BEST PERSON to speak for Aspergians who have come to the end of their ropes?


No, they are not. If anyone makes such a statement and REALLY BELIEVES what they are saying, they are in need of immediate hospitalization and treatment for major depressive psychosis, and they are not in any state to speak even for themselves, much less anyone else. Needless to say, they are incapable of caring for a child, especially a severely disabled one.

Least of all there is any need to disseminate psychotic ideas among the general population. Such ideas are part of the private struggle of the people afflicted with affective psychoses, but they are NOT for spreading all over the country (and further) and contaminating healthy people. What parents need is encouragement, support, emphasis on the way an autistic child is as much of a gift as any other child, and on the fact that, if parent and child work together, the child can achieve significant progress. They do NOT need someone throwing suicidal ideation at them and artificially driving them into despair, or trying to convince them that their child is worth killing.

However, I doubt that this woman is as depressed as might seem. Despondent people do not look like this. She is perfectly composed and calm, and is actually smiling at some point, and I think she knows perfectly well what she is saying. Moreover, a truly despondent person may have had such thoughts, or maybe phrased them privately to a close friend or relative, but would have never agreed to air them on camera for the whole country to hear. Most people who are morally sound (unless they are completely psychotic or in a state of affect - and believe me, this woman is not) realize that having such thoughts is abnormal and have a natural barrier when it comes to uttering them aloud.

I suppose she is sick allright, just not the sort of sick that makes me feel any compassion.

And, in case someone might be wondering, I have walked in "those shoes". I've been walking in them pretty much my whole adult life since I am bipolar. This is precisely why I feel so strongly about this.



KristaMeth
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Oct 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 926
Location: Hick town near Harrisburg?Pa

19 Feb 2008, 3:32 am

NewportBeachDude wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
Here's my issue. This is a 30 second video of the vice president of Autism Speaks, and it sounds to me like she would want to force the cure. She also demonizes autism to the point of making it sound like we deserve to die if we don't have a cure. Maybe you haven't seen the video, so maybe you have misconceptions about what the organization is actually about. So, just something to consider. You can have your opinion, but if you haven't seen this maybe you haven't heard the whole story. That woman is a Class A b***h.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NTfZzS9b8[/youtube]





Cockney Rebel, the mother is not a b***h. She's sharing with the world that she's despondant over her situation. Everyone's seen this video where she says she wanted to end it all. But, have you ever considered that someone like that may be the BEST PERSON to speak for Aspergians who have come to the end of their ropes? Or, other parents who didn't have hope and nobody to turn to. Look at all the threads on this board where people are despondant, talking about life not meaning anything, saying they were suicidal or had thoughts of that. This mother can relate to those people. She knows what that's like. She understands that grief and pain.

So, while you're putting her down, I say what better person to advocate for changes in society...a mother who's been at the edge of a cliff overlooking it, not wanting another human being to ever be in that same spot? Now she's in a position to change things not just for her daughter, but for everyone on the spectrum.

Again, walk a mile in someone else's shoes and see if they fit.

Peace.[/quote]

I agree with you.

I'm not especially fond of Autism Speaks or anything, but I just get tired of seeing everyone demonizing any and all people/things related to them.

I'm somewhat neutral to their group. They may not do things the way I would do them, or you would do them, or someone autistic would want them done, but I really don't think that they are trying to do damage to us or anyone for that matter. Definitely don't think it's comparable to something extreme like "extermination".

I didn't see what was so horrible about this woman. She said on video what many parents of even "NT" children would be afraid to ever admit. She was at a low point (you don't know who she is or where she's been), I don't see why you'd want to use her as the poster child for evil.


_________________
Push the envelope, watch it bend.


KristaMeth
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Oct 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 926
Location: Hick town near Harrisburg?Pa

19 Feb 2008, 3:46 am

ixochiyo_yohuallan wrote:
No, they are not. If anyone makes such a statement and REALLY BELIEVES what they are saying, they are in need of immediate hospitalization and treatment for major depressive psychosis, and they are not in any state to speak even for themselves, much less anyone else. Needless to say, they are incapable of caring for a child, especially a severely disabled one.


What do you mean by "really believes"? Obviously she didn't do it. I just know that kids can make you feel NUTS. Kids can make a person feel all kinds of horrible things at times. No matter how much you love them or how good they usually are, there will be a time when you just want to strangle them :oops:

All I see here is people taking this mothers comments personally.

How many of you have seriously wanted to doing something horrible? Illegal? Something that would get you the death sentence? Thought about shooting up your school, possibly? Maybe it's just me, but I've had some screwed up thoughts especially when life has been rough. This woman didn't act on her thoughts or ideas, that's what matters. Are we really going to judge her for her thoughts and feelings now?


_________________
Push the envelope, watch it bend.


ixochiyo_yohuallan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 500
Location: vilnius (lithuania)

19 Feb 2008, 5:01 am

KristaMeth:

That someone is at a low point, or is having ugly thoughts, still does not give them the right to speak them in front of the camera for everyone to hear. The fact is, speaking in public like this is a huge RESPONSIBILITY, because it is not merely about sharing one's thoughts with the rest of the world. There is always a danger that some individuals will relate to certain ideas more than was originally intended, and in the wrong way, and might actually act on them. As it is, disabled people fall victim to abuse of all sorts far more often than their non-disabled peers, and nobody needs this to be encouraged further.

Even if they did have to include these words of hers, they should have stressed that this is not a normal reaction at all, that she is completely desperate and needs help, etc. But they did not; actually, the whole film is constructed so as to convey the message that this IS, indeed, a normal reaction in its own right.

Her words, along with the fact that the film was intentionally made to look as negative as possible (more so than the actual lives of the families involved), basically amounts to claiming that having such thoughts towards an autistic child is quite common and natural, and that autistic children are little more than a burden. At least, there will always be a number of parents who will take it precisely this way. One just wonders whether this was, in fact, the original intention of the film.

There were times when I felt quite unspeakable towards my mother, and occasionally I will still think I hate her after we argue. But this doesn't mean that, if I were to participate in a support group for members of troubled families and had to be filmed, I would just go and say - oh, you know, I can't stand my mother and there were times when I contemplated murder. I know that I do not REALLY hate her, and that this is just fleeting anger which shouldn't be shown to anyone lest the wrong message is conveyed; and, above all, I know that saying such a thing would be plain wrong.

Everybody has had ugly thoughts at least at one point in their life, I suppose, but it doesn't mean that everybody should go around voicing them to everybody else.



TLPG
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 693

19 Feb 2008, 7:31 am

NewportBeachDude wrote:
TLPG wrote:
NPD, the experience of Aspies as individuals is so different that forming such an organisation without it descending into chaos is almost impossible. Just look at the number of arguments that have surfaced in here for example. Aspies for Freedom is another example of this.

Just food for thought - you support an organisation (Autism Speaks) that is pro eugenics?


You think the experiences of Aspies are different? Have a look at the Autism spectrum top to bottom...you can't get more different than that! Yet, parents of Autistic all over that spectrum and from different mindsets are changing the face of Autism TOGETHER, making the medical communinty and society at large stand up, listen and change some of its practices. If they can do it, surely adult Aspergians can do it to. If they can take the time to bash, they can take the time to construct.

Just food for thought - I support organizations that are improving the lives of others. Nobody at AS tells people not to breed due to Autism. Eugenics is your take, but you're entitled to it.


It's not my take - it's what they want. Eugenics. They are linked to CAN! don't forget. They DO want us to stop breeding. You can't know Autism Speaks as well as you think you do.

And on the first part - sorry, but you're not quite right. Parents and adult Aspies are two totally different "beasts" (for want of a better word). Parents act on behalf of their kids, and support works for them as a group. Adult Aspies (by and large) are all about the self interest - which is why there are a lot of arguments on forums such as this one. And passionate ones at that. Such is the passion, construct is seen as an interference.

And also just to clear up your first remark - I was speaking in terms of difference between Aspies and Aspies, not between Aspies and NT's as you seemed to be indicating (on which of course you're right - but that's not what I was saying).



KristaMeth
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Oct 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 926
Location: Hick town near Harrisburg?Pa

19 Feb 2008, 8:57 am

ixochiyo_yohuallan wrote:
KristaMeth:

That someone is at a low point, or is having ugly thoughts, still does not give them the right to speak them in front of the camera for everyone to hear. The fact is, speaking in public like this is a huge RESPONSIBILITY, because it is not merely about sharing one's thoughts with the rest of the world. There is always a danger that some individuals will relate to certain ideas more than was originally intended, and in the wrong way, and might actually act on them. As it is, disabled people fall victim to abuse of all sorts far more often than their non-disabled peers, and nobody needs this to be encouraged further.

Even if they did have to include these words of hers, they should have stressed that this is not a normal reaction at all, that she is completely desperate and needs help, etc. But they did not; actually, the whole film is constructed so as to convey the message that this IS, indeed, a normal reaction in its own right.

Her words, along with the fact that the film was intentionally made to look as negative as possible (more so than the actual lives of the families involved), basically amounts to claiming that having such thoughts towards an autistic child is quite common and natural, and that autistic children are little more than a burden. At least, there will always be a number of parents who will take it precisely this way. One just wonders whether this was, in fact, the original intention of the film.

There were times when I felt quite unspeakable towards my mother, and occasionally I will still think I hate her after we argue. But this doesn't mean that, if I were to participate in a support group for members of troubled families and had to be filmed, I would just go and say - oh, you know, I can't stand my mother and there were times when I contemplated murder. I know that I do not REALLY hate her, and that this is just fleeting anger which shouldn't be shown to anyone lest the wrong message is conveyed; and, above all, I know that saying such a thing would be plain wrong.

Everybody has had ugly thoughts at least at one point in their life, I suppose, but it doesn't mean that everybody should go around voicing them to everybody else.


To be honest I find this a little disturbing- your theory that people shouldn't talk about the darker side of their mind. "this is just fleeting anger which shouldn't be shown to anyone" I don't think there's any thought that shouldn't be shown to anyone. If you think it, it's a part of you. Why should people hide parts of who they are just so the "right" message is conveyed?

Obviously you and I are different in this belief. I'll gladly tell people I've wanted to kill my mom, shoot up my middle school, or strangle my kid. Some people think I'm crazy for it, others just think I'm honest.

"Should have stressed that this is not a normal reaction at all"? Come on, who are you to decide what is and isn't a "normal" reaction for a parent finding out their child is autistic? You could even say that maybe the reason she felt like this was because of all the misinformation and horror stories out there about autism. Bottom line is that you don't know what drove her to feel like that. You haven't lived her life, you haven't dealt with her kid, and it's not right to make a mother feel like s*** for being less than chipper about life with a difficult child. Regardless of why the child is this way, or whether or not they can help it, it's still difficult.

"That someone is at a low point, or is having ugly thoughts, still does not give them the right to speak them in front of the camera for everyone to hear. "

Yes it does. It's called freedom of speech. It's in the constitution. And if someone else hears this and is stupid enough to decide that they need to kill their autistic child because of this, then Autism Speaks can go ahead and get sued for it. But until then, it's that womans right to talk about how she felt. Not everyone wants to keep their skeletons in their closet their whole life. It feels good to be honest- even when the truth hurts.


_________________
Push the envelope, watch it bend.


Zarathustra
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2007
Age: 118
Gender: Male
Posts: 574
Location: In orbit

19 Feb 2008, 9:35 am

NewportBeachDude wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
It's not about causing trouble, picking fights or trolling. It's about evidence based medicine, therapy, quackbusting, supporting people and remembering that AS isn't 100% pathology.



Yo, dude, that's what you're doing is causing trouble. You're harrassing parents on the internet and it makes no sense. That's another board surving a different purpose. What right do you have to go over there and mess with those people like that? What have they done to you?

Aspergians like yourself want acceptance and respect. But, you're not willing to give that to others.
WTF?


_________________
"No matter what the facts are, only the Truth matters"


ixochiyo_yohuallan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 500
Location: vilnius (lithuania)

19 Feb 2008, 9:44 am

KristaMeth:

KristaMeth wrote:
Obviously you and I are different in this belief.


Evidently. Let's agree to disagree.

As for honesty, it is not honest when everything is shown in a negative light, which is precisely what Autism Speaks seem to be doing. The task of parenting an autistic child (or, for that matter, any child) is obviously tough, and nobody is saying it should be viewed through rose-tinted glasses. But it should not be painted all in black either, because this is every bit as biased and dishonest as painting it all in pink.

I still have to hear any of the parents there stressing that their child had brought some joy into their lives. Maybe they did and I either didn't read/listen to the appropriate materials, or they did it so weakly that I missed it. Yet there are obviously many parents who do feel that way about their autistic children, regardless of how difficult it might be to raise them, but for some reason they never get the same sort of publicity. This is not called honesty; it is still another bias which is just as destructive as the "all-rosy" one.

However, while not honest, this is an effective way of raising donations, which I suspect is what really counts. (By the way, the bulk of these donations is then invested into pro-eugenics research, and a comparatively small amount is used to fund services for autistic people. So I am not sure what is meant by all these discussions about Autism Speaks "helping severely autistic people adjust" that much).

And freedom of speech, well, like any freedom, it ought to come with responsibility. It does not mean anyone can tell anything to anyone else without any regard for how it might impact others. That would be anarchy, not freedom. But that's only my opinion, of course.



Last edited by ixochiyo_yohuallan on 21 Feb 2008, 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

WurdBendur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 648
Location: Indiana

20 Feb 2008, 7:24 am

Man, this thread has good down the pooper since I last checked it.

KristaMeth wrote:
You reek of fair and balanced. How do you do it?


Actually being fair and balanced is pretty easy, but reeking of it, now that takes some effort. :lol:


_________________
"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them." - Isaac Asimov


Zarathustra
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2007
Age: 118
Gender: Male
Posts: 574
Location: In orbit

20 Feb 2008, 12:37 pm

Just like a discussion on the Autism Speaks forum...


_________________
"No matter what the facts are, only the Truth matters"


kit000003
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2008
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 362
Location: Pensacola, FL

20 Feb 2008, 2:37 pm

Ever since I came across the first negative reference to Autism Speaks on this board, I have been looking through the YouTube Videos, and googling for information about them. Now based on the videos, screw them. They put out propaganda videos in order to get money. Yet, they do fight for other things. I don't trust their agenda, though. They treat autism as if it is a disease, and teach others to treat it that way. Even though, in their own research, they've found that it is how the brain itself is wired (more/smaller connectors in certain parts of the brain, less/larger in others) and that it is genetic.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/press/index.php

This is the link to the Autism Speaks Press Release page, from that page you can see the press releases that they posted for the last 2 years. I find it interesting that, in December of 2007, they got $5 million in grants to do research. Which they are spending on educating (not hiring) new research specialists, genome projects, the study of factors during pregnancy causing autism, and the study of 187 autistic children from Dx to adulthood.

Now, compared to that, they also received about $565,000 in community service grants. To be used in Education ($258,500), Recreation/Community Activities ($141,900), Adults Services ($85,400), and Equipment ($79,300). ok. Does anyone else see a disparity here?

Also, the Combating Autism Act, from a few day later, four parts. First part, good, it allows for Autism treatment and Dx at Health Resources Administration ($36,354,000). Second Part, I find insulting and vaguely disturbing, Autism surveillance and awareness at the Center for Disease Control and Prevention ($16,212,000) (yes the CDC is watching us). The third part, again more research, this time it goes to the NIH($108,500,000). Now the fourth I kinda like, Implementation of the Interagency Autism Coordinating Commitee, ($1,000,000), If they all work together, we might just get somewhere.

{edited to add} Oh and if you look at the videos that are actually on their page, they show the basic stereotypical autistic behavior very well, and they show each different one in the same child over different ages. Yet, if this is how they are studying small children, I would consider it a form of torture. One child has an aversion to balloons popping, so whenever he sees a balloon, his hands clap over his ears, he actually begs the examiner not to blow the balloon up again and she laughs at him. Sorry, but that is terrorizing a small child.



Last edited by kit000003 on 21 Feb 2008, 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

OregonBecky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Age: 71
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,035

20 Feb 2008, 4:25 pm

kit000003 wrote:
Ever since I came across the first negative reference to Autism Speaks on this board, I have been looking through the YouTube Videos, and googling for information about them. Now based on the videos, screw them. They put out propaganda videos in order to get money. Yet, they do fight for other things. I don't trust their agenda, though. They treat autism as if it is a disease, and teach others to treat it that way. Even though, in their own research, they've found that it is how the brain itself is wired (more/smaller connectors in certain parts of the brain, less/larger in others) and that it is genetic.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/press/index.php

This is the link to the Autism Speaks Press Release page, from that page you can see the press releases that they posted for the last 2 years. I find it interesting that, in December of 2007, they got $5 million in grants to do research. Which they are spending on educating (not hiring) new research specialists, genome projects, the study of factors during pregnancy causing autism, and the study of 187 autistic children from Dx to adulthood.

Now, compared to that, they also received about $565,000 in community service grants. To be used in Education ($258,500), Recreation/Community Activities ($141,900), Adults Services ($85,400), and Equipment ($79,300). ok. Does anyone else see a disparity here?

Also, the Combating Autism Act, from a few day later, four parts. First part, good, it allows for Autism treatment and Dx at Health Resources Administration ($36,354,000). Second Part, I find insulting and vaguely disturbing, Autism surveillance and awareness at the Center for Disease Control and Prevention ($16,212,000) (yes the CDC is watching us). The third part, again more research, this time it goes to the NIH($108,500,000). Now the fourth I kinda like, Implementation of the Interagency Autism Coordinating Commitee, ($1,000,000), If they all work together, we might just get somewhere.


Thiis is a well thought out post. Thank you for it.


_________________
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.


NewportBeachDude
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

21 Feb 2008, 12:35 pm

Here's my question: It seems like most of the Aspergians in this community hate anything and everything related to Autism Speaks. So, which organizations out there that champion spectrum causes do you guys like? What do these organizations do and who are the beneficiaries of their advocacy?

Since there's been dozens of threads and hundred of posts on hating Autism Speaks, there should be equally as much if not more on the groups you all support.

Thanks.