The Neurodivergency Thread

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Neurodivergency is a new concept within the field of Neurodiversity.
The term stems from the fact that many of us are too varied and unique for having simple formal labels such as AS, Dyspraxia, NLD, etc.
In addition, we are interested in researching and celebrating our own unique selves.
The concept of Neurodivergency is for anyone who feels neurologically different from mainstream society.
"Neurodivergent" is not a label that someone can impose on someone else, unlike a medical diagnosis, nor is it a label that can be denied to someone. It is up to each person to decide if they are, or not.

Your thoughts, comments, ideas and suggestions will be very welcome.

Last edited by KenG on 03 Sep 2009, 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think this is a really useful and inspiring new term, which eliminates all, or most, of the problems associated with using the DSM criteria, ( which are funded by the pharmaceutical industry anyway; of the professionals on the average DSM board 53% are salaried by pharmaceutical companies, and the people on the schizophrenia board are ALL salaried by pharmaceuticals ), among them as you say the lack of autonomy involved, the way medical diagnosis reduces many people to passive objects receiving a classification, aswell as the confusion generated by the both complicated and simplistic categories.

It is an exciting term, because it is inclusive without being wishy washy as the term "neurodiversity" tends to be. The trouble with "neurodiversity" as a term is that it implies that everybody is suffering from some sort of neurological difference. This is not true. Most people do not feel different. Most people do not feel left out or excluded because their brain works a certain way. Neurodivergency addresses this; it includes ALL of the ( small but significant ) minority who function in ways that society as a whole does not enable, understand or appreciate.

Out with the narrow and suffocating dimensions of the DSM categories! Out with all the squabbling and sniping and competing and comparing of symptoms which the DSM encourages, the divisive effect it has. Out with the hunt for a diagnosis, the search for a professional seal of approval/authenticity.

Anyone who sees the world differently, feels differently to most people, experiences problems in "normal" situations/environments which most people do not, as a result of neurological difference, and who wants/needs an explanation, wants/needs support/company of others in the same boat, could identify as neurodivergent, without having to go and ask their doctor/several doctors for permission.

At the moment there is the "autism spectrum", and even "autistic cousins", but that makes those of us who fit many criteria and none exactly feel like poor relations. The DSM creates a heirarchy of disability/disorder in the same way as early human rights campaigns did in the 70's when someone famously asked, "So if I am a blind black lesbian woman am I more of a victim than a blind white lesbian woman?".

Human variety is too much for the DSM. It wasn't invented to help anyone but psychiatrists etc anyway. What about addressing the real problem which is exclusion and difficulty for neurological reasons, of many kinds.

I'm XDSM. I'm neurologically divergent.

And by the way, I am not on the wrong planet.

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yaaaaay!! !! !

I have been fond of the term neuro-eccentric for some time though.

I like it and I will continue to use it. Maybe the term divergent will encourage the typical world to take a second look at all the assumptions they've grown too comfortable with.

The... field? Neurodiversity is a field? Wow, I've been out of academia for longer than I thought.



I strongly disagree that the formal label of AS is in any way "simple".

Requested Thoughts:
I'm not much into labels. To label someone is to pigeonhole them. There is a tendency (true or not) to assume that the label encompasses all they are. The idea of fighting labels with another label seems counterintuitive.

Back in the 1980's there was a big deal with a new thing called "alternative music". At first only a fringe group listened to this music. Soon everybody started listening to it and "alternative music" became mainstream - even though by definition it was NOT supposed to be mainstream. This new label is similar in that it can apply universally to everyone at anytime and, if ever popularized (though unlikely), it would simply become the new mainstream. For example: WHO is going to disagree with the statement "I am interested in researching and celebrating my own unique self"? Do you feel this is the exclusive province of those with AS (or similar)? Can you imagine someone saying "You know what, I'm just not really interested in knowing anything about myself. I'm such a boring and non-unique person". Of course not.

Nah. I know who and what I am without an additional label. I do not need labels or other people to define me.

I don't have to imagine someone like that; I live with someone who is exactly like that, and have met many people who are the same; for whom the idea of self-examination is utterly alien, who might, as in the case of my co-parent, find it entertaining when I do it, about myself, them, or the world in general, but has absolutely no interest in doing it themselves.

He would not describe himself as unique; he just "is", and does in fact think that he is pretty "boring", both in the sense that he is not in the slightest bit interested in thinking about himself, and in the sense that he thinks of himself as pretty much like most people, having almost never experienced any unusual difficulties with "normal" life and normal expectations. And he is not alone; there are millions like him.

I think that it is interesting, and significant, that you not able to imagine anyone being like that. It is also a good example of why the term neurodivergent would be so useful, expressing just how differently some people think, and how thinking differently can cause alienation.
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Last edited by ouinon on 01 Sep 2009, 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

It may "seem counter-intuitive" to you but it is what you just did. Words are labels; you just used a few hundred of them to fight a few hundred of KenGs. If you use any words at all to describe yourself you are defining yourself with labels. Of course if you had replied with nothing but smileys or other visual symbols that would have been different!

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neuro-eccentric is also nice, but "eccentric" means "out of center". We are tired of being marginalized, so there is no point in labeling ourselves as such.
A neurodivergency movement has better chances of attracting media attention and of becoming a widely accepted movement.

yaaaaay!! !! ! to you too. I love your ukulele playing and your singing. You cover many songs I like.

Whatever, kid. It's just my opinion which, I might point out, was solicited. It may be piss in somebody's cornflakes (yours apparently), but I'm entitled to it.

As to your points, I don't believe for one minute that either of your parents would state "I am a non-unique person" if asked directly. Unbelievable as this may sound, you will find out later that your parents are actually NOT the root of all evil, boring, etc etc. Besides, even if you actually cajoled one of them into logging into WP and posting "I am a non-unique person" right here in this forum, a pretty good argument could be made that they were VERY unique simply for doing so. I suppose the irony of this is that, even if we were to concede that you are correct about your folks, all you have proven is a case of someone who has NO USE for this label.

"Words used as labels" is a completely different concept from "labeling people". Please note: I am talking about LABELING PEOPLE. Like calling someone a "Man's Man", an "ex-con", ... or a "snotty, judgmental kid". Every label (good or bad) carries with it, besides the denotative and connotative inferences, a certain implication that the person can be no more than the label. He's an "ex-con" and that's all he'll ever be. Cheers to recidivism, mates, but "no thanks" for me.

I think you misread my post:
I've asked him, on many occasions over the 11 years that I have known him, as co-parent, ( we have a 10 year old son ), because I also used to have trouble believing that he, and people like him, could see themselves like this, and he says, as many people do, that he doesn't think he is very interesting, that he rarely if ever thinks about himself at all, and is very very ordinary and normal.

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No, you weren't clear. You.

"Co-parent" could also mean you are referring to one of your parents who are gay (male-male or female-female) and you are twelve and living at home. There is no frame of reference, you don't share age or details, and I am not going to get into your personal life here. Consider the following hypothetical: Rob and Dave are my co-parents. The state won't let them get married, and I may or may not refer to them as "Dad and dad". Hell, some kids call their parents BY NAME.

In any case: fine, I agree with you, you are co-habitating with the most un-unique person in the world who has no use for this label. You win. Now how about you leave me alone? I'm just responding to a request for thoughts.

I consider my AS a strength and a part of who I am. I am different and not abnormal. I choose to represent my activism publicly by attending meetings and occasionally joining group activities here in my hometown. Others choose to represent their activism by creating labels. To each their own. That's the whole point of diversity. I'm glad the label works for you. These are your thoughts. You are entitled to them.

I will not be responding to you further in this thread.

I did use to think that the people who hardly ever think much about themselves, hardly ever ask questions about anything, hardly ever feel seriously/paralysingly out of place, and find most normal activities and environments easy/straightforward to deal with, in fact thrive on the normal, were boring, or stupid, because I didn't understand them.

I didn't know that because they were neurologically normal they simply didn't experience, for example, most of the difficulties that I did, and never needed to ask questions, work things out as deeply as I did. I thought that they must be stupid not to see the illogicalities/inconsistencies etc in so many things. I've realised now; they're different.

Labels like Aspergers, HFA/LFA, ADHD, NLD, PDD/NOS and so on, even the relatively broad "autism spectrum", are not much better than "stupid" and "boring"; they perpetuate the idea that the minority of us who think and feel differently to the majority are disordered, dysfunctional, rather than just different, as NTs are different.

As KenG said, such labels marginalise ( and divide ) us, whereas neurodivergency would apply to all who feel out of place, odd, or excluded for neurological reasons, in the same way as the word "queer" is enabling everyone who feels out of place, odd, or excluded sexually or gender-wise to transcend the ( many ) simplistic medical labels for sexual and gender "dysfunction".

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That's interesting. It hadn't occurred to me that it was such an ambiguous term. Thank you for pointing that out. I shall use it more carefully in future.

I like this passage from Dinah Murray's chapter in "Coming Out Asperger"; "The One that Got Away":


And all the labels which psychologists and psychiatrists have come up with for different kinds of atypicality are part of that pathologisation/marginalisation. Using any of them is playing by their rules.

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Ouinon, this text brings tears of joy into my eyes.

Eccentric just means deviating from a conventional path. I don't think that it has negative connotations.
We do deviate from a conventional path.

I use it in the same context that neuro-divergent is used..I don't really use it in terms of a movement though..I use it in terms of my family and peer group. We are a mixed bag of mostly non-neurotypicals. Some are diagnosed and some aren't, but easily could be if they chose to go down that path....

I will not waste time describing the symptoms of my friends and family.
I will say that I have dealt with numerous issues that are relevant to the autistic spectrum for my whole life. Obsessions, sensory issues, social difficulties, voice issues, motor issues, repetitive behavior, meltdowns.....ect.....in addition to severe ADD symptoms....But there are ways in which I deviate from conventional AS stereotypes....(I am in a polyamorous relationship, for example)
I have had a few semi-diagnoses but I am unlikely to receive a "real" diagnosis unless I win the lottery...so while I can hardly pretend to be a "normal" 34 year old "woman"....I have no idea what sort of lable best suits my combination of symptoms.
I don't want to live under a label...but I sometimes feel the need to explain myself without lying.
An AS specialist told me she thought I was an aspie.
It is likely though that I am PDD-NOS....and heavy on the ADD...
But that is just me...
My friends all have different issues of their own...which deviate from the norm and vary in terms of severity. Our neuro-eccentricity is something that sort of bonds us.

OK, we can use both neuro-divergent and neuro-eccentric, because they seem to mean the same thing to us.
Exactly. I hope that some day neurodivergency will bond together people from all over the world
It is time for the world's neurological minorities to have their own community, culture, festivals, exhibitions, books, news reports, whatever...