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ChangelingGirl
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03 Oct 2009, 8:17 am

Question to anyone who opposes cure, just to explore the matter (I am anti-cure, too, so it ain't like I want to offend anyone). Since autism likely is caused by many different genetic deviations, it is possible that there could actually be different kinds of autism, genetically speaking. Like, people with one mutation could be more like Asperger's, while others with another mutation, could be more like high-functioning autism, or low-functioning autism, etc., and still others could have autism along with certain physical health problems (like seizures, GI problems, etc.). Now the question is: if there were genetically different yptes of autism, would you want one to be cured but not the other? Suppose there were a cure for some autistic mutation that includes severe health problems, would you support that cure, assuming that it would be the only way to cure the health problems apart from current management (which is usually poor, eg. some people with epilepsy cannot be treated with anticonvulsants)? What if "low-functionign autism" were a distinct genotype from "high-functioning autism"/Asperger's (as some family research is already suggesting)?



sinsboldly
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03 Oct 2009, 8:40 am

It is not likely my support or non support will affect a cure or no cure, at all. At some point I feel it is just an intellectual exercise with no real affect on the practices of the world.

but then, I have always felt on the outside looking in.


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Magneto
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03 Oct 2009, 4:37 pm

There probably are different causes. As I have often said, Autism is just a collection of symptoms. It is quite possible for someone to have brain damage and present sufficient symptoms to be diagnosed as autistic, whereas another person with the same diagnosis might be genetically predisposed to it.



ChangelingGirl
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04 Oct 2009, 6:35 am

Magneto wrote:
There probably are different causes. As I have often said, Autism is just a collection of symptoms. It is quite possible for someone to have brain damage and present sufficient symptoms to be diagnosed as autistic, whereas another person with the same diagnosis might be genetically predisposed to it.


Yes, I agree. I don't like to see the claims that autism is purely genetic. Premature birth, prenatal infections, perinatal head trauma, etc. are all known risk factors. However, my point was that even if genetics wer eht eonly cause of autism, there would still be many genes involved, and all these different genes might lead to different types of autism, at least biologically speaking.



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04 Oct 2009, 7:57 am

The question about a cure is futile at this point, but you might well be on to something with regard to different autistic genotypes.

Hans Asperger described "little professors", aged from 6 to 11(?), who were linear thinkers and who would talk endlessly about their subject of interest. However, at that age some of us where rather inclined to flap and watch sunbeams reflect off of dust motes and had no interest in conversing at length. Are these two different genotypes?

Equally interesting is the genetic relationship among various neurological conditions such as autism, ADD, OCD, and anxiety. Is there a genetic relationship among these conditions, and the physical conditions you mentioned as well?



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04 Oct 2009, 12:58 pm

Well, I'll be stupid and point out the same thing I always do-- that two people can have the same behavior for completely different reasons, or completely different behavior for the same reasons.
The child who sits and stares at something for hours on end may have very similar reasons for doing so as the one who talks about that something for hours on end. Both are obsessing and neither is actually paying any attention to anybody else, despite the fact that the talkative one is talking, they're still not interacting.
The brain is just too complicated, and too many different factors interact with each other to produce any given result. You can talk about what causes something, but then you have to keep going, and think about what caused the cause, and what's being caused by the effect.


sinsboldly wrote:
It is not likely my support or non support will affect a cure or no cure, at all. At some point I feel it is just an intellectual exercise with no real affect on the practices of the world.

Isn't that true of most things? What makes something have a real effect on the practices of the world? How do you determine what's a real effect?
(And you did mean effect rather than affect, right? First, I assumed that it was a typo, but then I started thinking more about the affect of the world, and the typo started to make sense. :oops: Yea, I'm a dork, sorry.)



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05 Oct 2009, 8:31 pm

It is Genetic, so there is nothing that can be done. Reprograming genes is science fiction, along with nanobots, chip implants.

All suggested treatments are the same as deleating part of a computers opperating system, it may be causing a problem, but without it nothing boots.

The Bernie Madoff gene does a lot more social damage, go study it.



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05 Oct 2009, 10:47 pm

Inventor wrote:
The Bernie Madoff gene does a lot more social damage, go study it.


Good point.



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11 Oct 2009, 12:20 pm

Inventor wrote:
It is Genetic, so there is nothing that can be done. Reprograming genes is science fiction, along with nanobots, chip implants.

All suggested treatments are the same as deleating part of a computers opperating system, it may be causing a problem, but without it nothing boots.

The Bernie Madoff gene does a lot more social damage, go study it.


Reprogramming genes.
Actually you can do some genetic engineering in your own home if it's your sort of thing, just not legally on people yet.

Although nanobot technology is mostly in theoretical stages successful tests have already been done.
Chip implants are already in people's dogs, and in people.

Genes aren't "deleted" or cut out by genetic engineers intending to make living organisms, they're replaced with more favourable genes.

If there is a safe, viable method of detecting and treating autism, so be it, given it is at the discretion of the parents as to whether these methods are used.



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12 Oct 2009, 4:27 am

ChangelingGirl wrote:
Now the question is: if there were genetically different yptes of autism, would you want one to be cured but not the other? Suppose there were a cure for some autistic mutation that includes severe health problems, would you support that cure, assuming that it would be the only way to cure the health problems apart from current management (which is usually poor, eg. some people with epilepsy cannot be treated with anticonvulsants)? What if "low-functionign autism" were a distinct genotype from "high-functioning autism"/Asperger's (as some family research is already suggesting)?

Who said one type (if there is a type) of autism is better then the other?



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12 Oct 2009, 7:47 am

ChangelingGirl wrote:
Question to anyone who opposes cure, just to explore the matter (I am anti-cure, too, so it ain't like I want to offend anyone). Since autism likely is caused by many different genetic deviations, it is possible that there could actually be different kinds of autism, genetically speaking. Like, people with one mutation could be more like Asperger's, while others with another mutation, could be more like high-functioning autism, or low-functioning autism, etc., and still others could have autism along with certain physical health problems (like seizures, GI problems, etc.). Now the question is: if there were genetically different yptes of autism, would you want one to be cured but not the other? Suppose there were a cure for some autistic mutation that includes severe health problems, would you support that cure, assuming that it would be the only way to cure the health problems apart from current management (which is usually poor, eg. some people with epilepsy cannot be treated with anticonvulsants)? What if "low-functionign autism" were a distinct genotype from "high-functioning autism"/Asperger's (as some family research is already suggesting)?


From my education there was no reference to "autism" associated with fragile X and such; rather, it was mental retardation. The word "autism" may be useful in providing social services but for medical conditions I think it's of dubious value. I don't think a fragile X cure would face much philosophic opposition. Generally any cure won't face much objection as long as it's voluntary. Some people want to be "cured" of the gender they were born with.

Different genotypes can produce the same phenotype depending on the condition. One genotype can produce different phenotypes depending on the conditions.