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TheHaywire
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11 Oct 2009, 10:25 pm

I have a huge problem with the human behavior of "uniting against a common enemy to feel like more of a community." It was NT's that united against me in school. In the industry that I work in. They all felt closer to each other because they had me to pick on.

I'm not saying that's what's going on here and I definitely think it's good that awareness is being raised on how corrupt their organization is... but I'm still sensing a bit of the "witch trail" thing and having a hard time coping with how a group of autists (who have always been persecuted by groups) are ganging up on one group.

It may just be a moral thing for me. I'm into aspie unity but I feel that this is stooping down to their level. Even though the common enemy is a bunch of exploitive morons it's still "ganging up on one entity." I was always ganged up on. Just having trouble with all this. Why not unite against NT's who oppress us as a whole? Why just Autism Speaks? What about the public schooling system? What about the police who harass us because we don't speak their language?

I think that public schooling and the police are more harmful to us than some stupid organization thinking we have a disease that needs to be cured. They sued autistic children and this makes me sick but so did a bunch of other companies. I could make a list of hundreds.

Until public schooling gets rid of the bullying/mobbing problem and the police stop harassing us because we're easy targets I just... I don't know... I guess I'm just "going against the group" again because that's all I know how to do.



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11 Oct 2009, 10:46 pm

Making schools actually adhere to their no tolerance for bullies policy would definitely be a step in the right direction. Anytime my son has been bullied at school most of the focus has been on him and not the bully. They don't want him to fight back but "tell an adult" which he knows will only make him more of a target.



TheHaywire
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11 Oct 2009, 10:50 pm

I would advocate separate schools if I had the power to do so. We're never going to be able to fight back when we're getting attacked by that many people at once (statistically impossible) and we don't learn the same way as NT's do. I'm sick of their entire system. It's holding us back. If there are gifted schools etc. there's no reason for there not to be autist schools. Or at least autist classes.



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11 Oct 2009, 11:00 pm

There are a lot of good reasons to have separate schools, not only for auties but for anybody with a learning difference. I have Inattentive ADD and could have benefited from a different teaching style. At the risk of getting my facts wrong; I read in Right Brained In A Left Brained World that our current educational system is based on an old model devised after WWI in Germany with the intention of creating citizens who did not question authority. I'll see if I can't find it.



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11 Oct 2009, 11:16 pm

The Collision Between Left-Brained Schools and Right-Brained Kids

From the book, "Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World: Unlocking the Potential of Your ADD Child"
by Jeffery Freed and Laurie Parsons

Excerpt (as originally shown at the Mining Co)

published by Simon and Schuster c1997 Hardcover, $23.00

The problem [ADD] has been around ever since teachers have attempted to teach students subjects that didn't interest them. In most cases, it should be described not as a learning disability but as a teaching disability.

-Ronald D. Davis, The Gift of Dyslexia



Both our society and the world in general are becoming more visual. But many of our institutions, particularly our schools, have not kept up.

-Thom Hartmann, Beyond ADD

The misery the child may suffer while trying to conform to verbosely dominated schools can only be imagined by those who have themselves suffered the "Alice in Wonderland" experience, the experience of being in a place where nothing can quite be put together to make sense.

-Dr. John Philo Dixon, The Spatial Child

Why are we facing such a crisis in education? I would argue that our left-brained American schools have rarely placed an emphasis on creative, critical thinking. Our schools have historically churned our graduates who- while strong on regurgitating information- lack problem-solving skills. American children are taught to conform rather than challenge authority; the result is they often lack the ability to make connections and think in fresh, inventive ways. The traditional American school, with its emphasis on order, drill, and repetition, probably did a respectable job educating children at a time when kids were also left-brained, less hyperactive, and not so overstimulated. The problem is that students today are fundamentally different: Our classrooms are being flooded by a new generation of right-brained, visual kids. While our school system plods along using the same teaching methods that were in vogue decades ago, students are finding it more and more difficult to learn that way. As our culture becomes more visual and brain dominance shifts to the right, the chasm widens between teacher and pupil. Our schools are no longer congruent with the way many children think.

When you take a historical look at education in America, you find that, sadly, our system was founded with the goal of creating a society of dutiful, obedient foot soldiers, based on the German model. Thom Hartmann makes a persuasive case for this in his insightful book Beyond ADD. He takes us to early nineteenth-century Prussia (now Germany), renowned for its merciless and efficient army- until the Prussian army suffered a staggering defeat at the hands of Napoleon. This so shocked the leaders of Prussia that they went on a mission to find out why their soldiers had gotten so soft. German philosopher Johann G. Fichte, in his "Address to the German Nation," indicted Prussia's schools system, saying schools had failed to produce compliant pupils. These brash, undisciplined students, he asserted, went on to become disobedient and rebellious soldiers.

In 1819 the king of Prussia established a universal compulsory school system with the goal of producing dutiful children who would follow orders and later become winning soldiers. This strategy worked, at least initially. Over the next five or so decades, Prussia became a leading industrial and military power, due largely to an efficient, although uninspired, workforce. Prussia became the object of world envy, with governments sending representatives overseas to study what it was doing right. Horace Mann, one of the most influential leaders in American education, was among those summoned to Prussia; he returned raving about how Prussia's disciplined school system could be useful in America to cure social ills, tame the Wild West, and provide quality workers. Not surprisingly, American industrial leaders embraced the concept of a system that would provide colonies of compliant worker bees to labor in factories and on railroads. In the words of Hartmann, "So began the dumbing down of America."

As we know, Germany, model for the American education system, was paying a price for its short-sighted educational priorities. The same system that produced meek, compliant children also produced meek, compliant adults so desperate for leadership that they embraced the fanaticism of Adolf Hitler. They were wired from childhood to look the other way when faced with the horror of the Holocaust. Germany's defeat was caused by the "tricks of schoolmasters." And theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer claims that the defeat of the German army in World War II was the "inevitable product" of the German educational system.



Callista
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11 Oct 2009, 11:36 pm

I think you may be confusing "ganging up" on a corporation or other group, versus against an individual. They are very different things. When people gang up against an individual, the individual is separated out and left without allies. When a group of people "gangs up" against another group of people, both groups end up becoming more closely knit. Autism Speaks is a single entity as a corporation; but it's not a single person, and as such, can't suffer the effects of bullying like a single person could. There have been a lot of incidents in history where a lot of people pitted themselves against an organization or a government; just about any revolution, for example; most protests; civil rights movements; boycotts. While this can cause stress for the leaders of both sides, it doesn't single out an individual person. It's group-versus-group; for that matter, sometimes group-versus-ideology. I can see that maybe you don't like hurting people's feelings; but when people are bigoted like Autism Speaks is, it does them no good to stay that way, so if you choose not to speak up, you're really not helping them.

Maybe it doesn't feel right to "gang up" and fight an organization; but it feels more wrong to sit there and let them target vulnerable individuals, like children and parents with children newly diagnosed. This isn't a group of people targeting a single person; it's more like a second group of people trying to stop the first from targeting anybody.

In any event, we don't have to use the dirty strategies they use. We're free to use good science, we don't have to resort to emotional language, we don't fear anybody speaking for themselves, and we don't have to try to shut anybody up or hide where our money is going. We don't have to villify anybody, marginalize anybody, or refuse to let anybody say what they think, because opposing opinions can't hurt you when part of what you're trying to do is let people voice those opinions, whatever they may be. To be able to work with a clean conscience is quite an advantage.


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11 Oct 2009, 11:53 pm

TheHaywire wrote:
I would advocate separate schools if I had the power to do so.

Separate schools? There are specialized private schools available, but once you start making separate public schools, my "Separate but equal" alarm starts going off.



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12 Oct 2009, 12:12 am

The issue there seems to be that when you had racial segregation, you had two groups of people with essentially identical cognitive abilities being asked to learn two different ways, with one group being given less than the other. Autism isn't quite like that, though, because autistic people do learn differently and do require in many cases a different environment. Treating everybody the same isn't necessarily the same thing as fairness (because people are different--for example, you would seriously punish a teen-ager who looked up girls' skirts, but not a three-year-old who did the same.) "Separate but equal" wouldn't even help autistic people any; it'd have to be "separate and unequal", in the sense that autistic people need different things than typical people do; NT kids wouldn't need social-skills classes or speech therapy for example. Fairness would be when each child gets exactly what he needs to learn best at school, whether that's a separate school, where he can't be targeted by bullies (as easily) or a school that's big enough to contain the resources that let him excel academically (I've yet to hear of a thirty-student school with a decent science laboratory, music program, or sports team...)


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12 Oct 2009, 12:40 am

Callista wrote:
I've yet to hear of a thirty-student school with a decent science laboratory, music program, or sports team...

Okay, I actually graduated from a 30-student school. No, the lab wasn't great, though we did get to see/do some interesting things (Ice cream made with liquid nitrogen FTW.)...

Now, there are some specialized public schools, but they're for the low end, and I don't know whether this extends to middle/high school. But onto the main point: to make them for the high end... Equality would go away really quickly. Is there such a school in the area? No, you have to commute. Does it get adequate funding? It was the first thing that the district cut when Arnold decided not to give them that bonus. And, quite possibly the biggest thing: Can you go to the regular school instead?

I think that such setups should be added to existing schools. Practicality aside, what if the entire staff were extensively trained to deal with humans, instead of just NTs?



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12 Oct 2009, 3:03 am

TheHaywire wrote:

I think that public schooling and the police are more harmful to us than some stupid organization thinking we have a disease that needs to be cured. They sued autistic children and this makes me sick but so did a bunch of other companies. I could make a list of hundreds.




Yes, unfortunately, we live in a 'legal' world:

Exercising ones rights (to free speech) often means having deep pockets (in some countries more than others)

Muzzling those rights can also be simply about having the money to do it.

Fortunately, until we are living in an Orwellian 'Utopian' society, those with 'diseases' like AS (and the others) won't be forced into being 'cured'.



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13 Oct 2009, 4:19 am

Callista wrote:
I think you may be confusing "ganging up" on a corporation or other group, versus against an individual. They are very different things. When people gang up against an individual, the individual is separated out and left without allies. When a group of people "gangs up" against another group of people, both groups end up becoming more closely knit. Autism Speaks is a single entity as a corporation; but it's not a single person, and as such, can't suffer the effects of bullying like a single person could. There have been a lot of incidents in history where a lot of people pitted themselves against an organization or a government; just about any revolution, for example; most protests; civil rights movements; boycotts. While this can cause stress for the leaders of both sides, it doesn't single out an individual person. It's group-versus-group; for that matter, sometimes group-versus-ideology. I can see that maybe you don't like hurting people's feelings; but when people are bigoted like Autism Speaks is, it does them no good to stay that way, so if you choose not to speak up, you're really not helping them.

Maybe it doesn't feel right to "gang up" and fight an organization; but it feels more wrong to sit there and let them target vulnerable individuals, like children and parents with children newly diagnosed. This isn't a group of people targeting a single person; it's more like a second group of people trying to stop the first from targeting anybody.

In any event, we don't have to use the dirty strategies they use. We're free to use good science, we don't have to resort to emotional language, we don't fear anybody speaking for themselves, and we don't have to try to shut anybody up or hide where our money is going. We don't have to villify anybody, marginalize anybody, or refuse to let anybody say what they think, because opposing opinions can't hurt you when part of what you're trying to do is let people voice those opinions, whatever they may be. To be able to work with a clean conscience is quite an advantage.


This really helped to put things in perspective for me. Thank you.