the aspie defense

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Now TWO hackers have "played the aspie card" in court:

Gary McKinnon in England faces 60 years in prison in the US for hacking into the Pentagon and NASA. He says he's got AS so he should get to avoid extradition for medical reasons. He claims it's a human rights issue: He's so depressed, he'll kill himself if he gets extradited; therefore extraditing him is tantamount to murder. (That's the same tactic the sheriff used in Blazing Saddles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upvZdVK913I#t=2m40s ) http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/0 ... cker-gary/

Albert Gonzales in Boston is facing 15-25 years for stealing credit card numbers. He was convicted, and now he wants leniency because he has "diminished capacity" due to AS. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BH3SV20091218

Does anyone else think this is total bull-doo-doo?

Their AS may explain why they're such good hackers, but it sure doesn't explain why they committed these crimes. I'm a pretty good hacker myself, and I'm pretty sure I have AS, but I managed to not commit any major cybercrimes.

That's the way a 'good' lawyer defends a client. My friend had to go to court because her husband stopped paying their credit card - She left feeling so offended because the lawyer used her lack of a college education as a defense. (It was small claims court, or something)

Well they're certainly entitled to mount desperate defenses. but it would be a really horrible precedent if it worked. My guess is the aspie defense is going to fail miserably.

I seriously hope the defense fails miserably. If it works, it would set a horrible legal precedent that we somehow have "flawed judgement" and could be used to restrict our Constitutional rights.

Coincidentally, today I was looking at the list of historical figures suspected to have been autistic on wikipedia (don't feel like linking to it), and I found speculation that more than a few of the worst of the worst have been speculated to have been on the spectrum. People like Hiter, Dahmer, etc.

I felt pretty damned offended at the time. But then I thought, what if it's true? What does it mean? To me it suggests that people on the spectrum may be just as vulnerable to sociopathy as NTs. A small percentage of us may well have damaged ethical judgment. And like most people on the spectrum, if one's special interest is a horrific abomination like Hitler's obsession with genocide then given enough amphetamine and charisma they can nearly bring their plans to pass.

For me, I have a clear memory of an aha moment when empathy was made clear for me. I don't think I was especially mean before that, but after that moment I was much more conscious of other people's feelings -- even if I did have a hard time reading the body language. I have a powerful imagination so I would just imagine myself as them. I guess it's a little less efficient than the NT intuitive method, but oh well.

Gary McKinnon: fine, in my opinion. He knows he's done something wrong, and he's prepared to do the time for it - but the only thing he wants is to be tried in England, rather than America. I can kind of see how an Aspie might not cope too well with what they're threatening to do to him. And besides - his intent wasn't malicious, and he didn't actually do any damage.

But this other guy - lock 'im up, I say! He was stealing money, for goodness sake! He had bad intentions, and probably knew perfectly well what he was doing if he's managed to get a decent lawyer now. Bull doo-doos, as you so eloquently put it, OP.

Gary McKinnon should use whatever defense is available to him including non-legal means if it will help him keep from being sent to the Police States of America. The British government is BETRAYING one of its citizens by forcibly sending him to a foreign country for imprisonment. As far as for Albert Gonzales, he needs to get a fair trial and if found guilty needs to repay all of the money he has stolen. What good is it to imprison this man? His victims are still out of their money and the only one getting any form of satisfaction is the government (which has suffered no harm from Albert's actions).

Americans were appalled when the same thing almost happened to Mr. Chapman also known as "Dog, the Bounty Hunter."
In this case, the American government attempted to betray this man to the Mexican government. It is always good to know quite a bit of information that one's own government would not wanted revealed should one find his or her self in such a position.

Thats not to say that Aspies are incapable of crime or brutality .. I dont doubt that we are, merely because we are human.

AS in criminal cases should probably be more of a factor when considering punishment than motive per se, though as each and any case is going to be highly subjective its a bad idea to speak in absolutes. There probably ARE situations where AS could lead to a crime where it would be a mitigating factor.

I agree that it is wrong to extradite Gary McKinnon to the US to faice trial and punishment, however at the same time I don't think his Aspergers should have anything to do to negate anything that he may be found guilty of in a British courtoom.

Gonzales also deserves what he gets, Asperger's aside.

Asperger's is not an excuse to do whatever the hell you want, a get-out-of-jail-free card. If smart enough to put the effort into doing something illegal, then you're sure as hell smart enough to know the consequences.

Lock 'em both up for life!

If a defense team has reason to believe that a client has some trait or characteristic that is relevant to the precedings, then they can argue their case accordingly. The veracity of such claims is determined as part of the procedings; various claims attempting to cast evidential doubt, diminish culpability, or otherwise mitagate negative impacts for defendents are entirely normal and not particularly special just because an ASD happens to be involved in such claims.

In my opinion, they shouldn't even listen to the cries of Gonzalez. He has ruined many lives and should have to pay. Gary McKinnon, on the other hand, never harmed a soul and doesn't deserve to go to prison. His Asperger's did play a part in his hacking, as he was intensely fascinated with UFOs. It would be more than unfair to sentence him to 70 years in prison, where he would face a lifetime of suffering and misery.