Psychology Today's Bigotry: Facebook gives you Aspergers

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Vector
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03 Nov 2010, 12:52 pm

The Social Network, Aspergers, and Your Brain

Unbelievable.

First of all, no.

Mark Zuckerburg, as portrayed in the film The Social Network, does not have Aspergers.

He is obsessed with social status and the girl who rejects him. He shows no passion for the actual work of building Facebook-- he is interested only in the rewards it will reap for him. He is rude, but socially extremely adroit. He is better at figuring out people's motives than anyone else in the movie.

In case you think Norman Holland, the bigot who wrote this article, has any clue aboiut what autism is, he says he thinks Zuckerberg is a savant.

I am angry that Psychology Today would publish a piece which relies on stereotypes, but much worse is the fearmongering Holland does:

If Facebook was created by someone with Aspergers, maybe it will re-program the brains of everyone who uses it:


Quote:
And is not the movie suggesting that our whole society, our "social network," is getting to be the same way? We have hundreds or even millions of "friends" on Facebook, but they are people whom we don't really know or have an authentic, tangible relationship with. Our iPads and iPhones and Blackberrys and all the other technological delights give us contacts with thousands of people. Thousands "hit" on this blog, for example, but with whom of you out there, do I have a real relationship? And could I tolerate real relationships with thousands of people?

And how is this affecting my brain? One part of our minds or brains is hugely developed, at least the prefrontal cortex, while another, the many systems for our relationships with others, is stunted. I spend most of my days on the computer. Are my systems for real social interaction atrophying? We get reports all the time of children who resort to bullying because they have no social skills because they have been spending all their time online. (Look at this picture of the real Mark Zuckerberg.) When I was a teenager, the long telephone call was my lifeline to my pals. But now it's Twitter and the momentary. Doesn't that change relationships? I think it does.

Can this Asperger's victim, if so he be, change your brain and mine? Is Asperger's contagious?


Oy.


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Asp-Z
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03 Nov 2010, 12:57 pm

The stuff about Facebook changing your brain is BS, but I don't doubt that Zuckerburg is an Aspie.



Vector
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03 Nov 2010, 1:02 pm

Real Zuckerberg very likely is an Aspie; the Zuckerberg in the movie is just rude.


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Asp-Z
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03 Nov 2010, 1:17 pm

Vector wrote:
Real Zuckerberg very likely is an Aspie; the Zuckerberg in the movie is just rude.


I don't know, let's look at your reasons why the movie portrayal of Zuckerberg isn't Aspie:

Quote:
He is obsessed with social status and the girl who rejects him. He shows no passion for the actual work of building Facebook-- he is interested only in the rewards it will reap for him. He is rude, but socially extremely adroit. He is better at figuring out people's motives than anyone else in the movie.


The stuff I've highlighted are things that apply to me, and I have an official diagnosis.

I don't agree with some of it, though. How was he socially adroit?

BTW, I should note, since I highlighted the socially adroit thing, though I'm pretty bad at socialising, something I am good at is using socialising for a purpose - manipulating people, in other words. I've trained myself up pretty well because I'm good at predicting people's reactions and analysing them. If that's what you were referring to in Zuckerberg, then it's still a pretty Aspie thing to do IMO.



KissOfMarmaladeSky
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03 Nov 2010, 1:35 pm

I don't understand this. I don't see any of us creating a social network where having a million friends is the norm and goal, and if we did create Facebook, it would be much less shallow and twice as awesome than what it really is. (I would get rid of the useless games and create my own games on there, as well as getting rid of the "friending" concept. Friends mean meaningful relationships, not shallow NT values of popularity and status. It's always been a problem from what I've read. In England, people married because of wealth, and we still do that!)

If



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03 Nov 2010, 1:37 pm

KissOfMarmaladeSky wrote:
I don't understand this. I don't see any of us creating a social network where having a million friends is the norm and goal, and if we did create Facebook, it would be much less shallow and twice as awesome than what it really is. (I would get rid of the useless games and create my own games on there, as well as getting rid of the "friending" concept. Friends mean meaningful relationships, not shallow NT values of popularity and status. It's always been a problem from what I've read. In England, people married because of wealth, and we still do that!)

If


The games are there because Facebook allow developers to make "applications" for Facebook. They do this to make Facebook more of a "hub" for people's internet activity - it's a social site with unlimited uses. That's the idea, anyway. And it does a good job at keeping people on there.



Vector
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03 Nov 2010, 1:39 pm

What I saw in The Social Network was someone who was never overwhelmed by a situation. Who never experienced anxiety. Who had no difficulty reading or responding to social cues. Who was Machiavellian rather Aspergian.

Did you see the movie? If so, what were the moments in it that made you think,
"Wow-- that guy has Aspergers?"


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03 Nov 2010, 1:51 pm

Vector wrote:
Did you see the movie? If so, what were the moments in it that made you think,
"Wow-- that guy has Aspergers?"


Yes, I have seen the movie, and the things that made me think he has Asperger's are as follows (this list isn't exhaustive): he spent all his time developing Facebook, essentially becoming obsessed with it, he wanted to make friends and get a girlfriend but was rejected, he was socially awkward throughout the entire film, he created a website to make friends when he had trouble doing so in real life, he was very good at computers and coding (not exclusive to Asperger's, I know, but people are are very good at and obsessed with that stuff are usually the Aspie type at least), he seemed more interested in the website itself than making money out of it (which contradicts what you said a few posts back, in fact, because I disagree with you), and he didn't seem to be as interested in going to all these parties as the others did.

There's a lot more, it'll probably come to me later...



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03 Nov 2010, 2:02 pm

Cool-- thanks for the response. I did not see someone being socially awkward-- I saw someone moving with great smoothness through a series of very complex situations. The only moment he showed any excitement over the building of Facebook was when he added the "in a relationship" feature. I never saw him being interested in the Website. He certainly wasn't disinterested in money-- the whole thing was structured aorund the lawsuits and how fictional Zuckerberg screwed his friends out of their shares in the company. What he was not willing to do was undervalue the company by monetizing too early. Not the same thing.

The other things you mention seem to be much more true of the real Zuckerberg than of the guy in the movie.


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03 Nov 2010, 2:10 pm

Vector wrote:
Cool-- thanks for the response. I did not see someone being socially awkward-- I saw someone moving with great smoothness through a series of very complex situations.


He could handle pressure well, yes, but if you look at how he socialised on a day-to-day basis, it was definately awkward.

Quote:
The only moment he showed any excitement over the building of Facebook was when he added the "in a relationship" feature. I never saw him being interested in the Website.


He pretty much spent all his time on it for the week it took him to develop it, I'd say that shows interest. Remember, at this point, he doesn't know how popular it will be or how much money it will make, it's just another project like the Fashmash site.

Quote:
He certainly wasn't disinterested in money-- the whole thing was structured aorund the lawsuits and how fictional Zuckerberg screwed his friends out of their shares in the company. What he was not willing to do was undervalue the company by monetizing too early. Not the same thing.


The film was very much focused on the lawsuits, yes, but the Zuckerberg character himself didn't care about money. He and his friends even said specifically, multiple times, that he does not care about money. He even seemed more concerned with losing a friend over the lawsuit than losing money. I'm pretty sure there's quotes from the film which back that up, but I don't have it in front of me.

Quote:
The other things you mention seem to be much more true of the real Zuckerberg than of the guy in the movie.


But you can still see them in the character...



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03 Nov 2010, 2:54 pm

Ugh, yeah, because it's all social stuff, right? :roll: Does he show signs of executive dysfunction? Shutdowns, meltdowns? Does he stim? Sensory issues? Can't wear certain things, eat other things, smells certain things, or freaked out by vacuum cleaners? Eye contact, voice too loud/soft/oddly intoned? I didn't see the movie, but I'm guessing that character showed none of those. "Jerk" who likes Facebook does not equal AS.



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03 Nov 2010, 3:21 pm

Not that I have ever met the man, but I seriously doubt he has AS.

The truth of the matter is, what he did in creating Facebook, which entails not only creating the website, but all of the interactions and networking that went on to fund the development of the company, requires social skills which are likely beyond even the most social adept person with AS, UNLESS the people they were working with were well aware the person had AS and were sympathetic for that.

But I doubt this was the case with MZ.

The one common factor among those who head successful startups is they are very socially adept. I've met many of these people and the people who funded them, and though they are technies they do not have AS.

They're as social as you get. The media just has a misperception that technologically inclined and innovative = Asperger's Syndrome.

I suppose that should be taken as a bit of a compliment....but for some reason, it doesn't come off that way because those of us who really have AS are sitting at home, probably low on money, usually with not much to show for our ideas.



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03 Nov 2010, 3:27 pm

Chronos wrote:
The truth of the matter is, what he did in creating Facebook, which entails not only creating the website, but all of the interactions and networking that went on to fund the development of the company, requires social skills which are likely beyond even the most social adept person with AS, UNLESS the people they were working with were well aware the person had AS and were sympathetic for that.


Watch the film. Most of the networking and business side was done by the Napster guy.

But even so, I'm a diagnosed Aspie and I'm not bad at socialising for a purpose, which is what business networking is.



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03 Nov 2010, 4:16 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Chronos wrote:
The truth of the matter is, what he did in creating Facebook, which entails not only creating the website, but all of the interactions and networking that went on to fund the development of the company, requires social skills which are likely beyond even the most social adept person with AS, UNLESS the people they were working with were well aware the person had AS and were sympathetic for that.


Watch the film. Most of the networking and business side was done by the Napster guy.

But even so, I'm a diagnosed Aspie and I'm not bad at socialising for a purpose, which is what business networking is.


I'm still highly skeptical.



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03 Nov 2010, 5:35 pm

I'm guessing that this is part of the way of thinking, regarding a more socially isolated society. That children are not playing outside as much, more have connected online through facebook than hanging out and phone calls, etc..., these of which do appear to be somewhat associated with some traits of Asperger's. Of course, it's still to a much different degree.

I think it's more "ignorance" than "bigotry"... hen again, bigotry is ignorance anyways.



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05 Nov 2010, 2:20 am

Sorry, I call BS. I was diagnosed before Myspace was around, and didn't start using the internet until the early 00's, and the only major sites I frequented was Wrongplanet and Mugglenet. I didn't even start Facebook until my last year in high school, and even then it took my mother to get me onto the site. Complete and utter BS. And trust me, I know what BS looks like, I live in Wyoming.


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