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Can Neurodiversity Simply Be Denoted As A Diversity Existing?
Yes - Keep It Simple 57%  57%  [ 4 ]
No - For Whatever Reason (Comment) 43%  43%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 7

ci
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16 Aug 2011, 1:35 am

Unhijacking Neurodiversity

Neurodiversity is a simple concept denoting a diversity exists and nothing more. It's been used for abortion politics, confrontations of all kinds and as a tool to create hard feelings and adversity. However Neurodiversity is a simple concept that cannot be used and manipulated outside if it's pure form for long before some begin to realize what happened to it.

In a Neurodiverse world as what exists simple concepts like Neurodiversity cannot be programmed in definition nor socially conditioned to make people think about politics a certain specific political way as in a side. It's a simple concept denoting a diversity exist and as I have said before it is a beautiful concept but in the wrong hands it is a conceptual weapon of sorts wielding political divisions, creating hatred between people and social conflict in general.

My spell check does not realize what neurodiversity the word is. The Oxford online dictionary has no mention of it. How can anyone dare mention the word without fear of some kind of reprisal for not slanting it in the right political direction. Sometimes no good intention is left unharmed by some kinds of advocates desiring to dictate how even other self-advocates must think about themselves and their diversity.

People with legally defined disabilities at times want this word to exist. It can represent a kind of hope in others realizing they exist, they are different and how it is they are ought to be respected regardless of a potential cure or alteration that exist now or later they can choose. However as soon as Neurodiversity is used to go up against others choices of treatments and potential cures for symptoms the concept becomes what seems to be ill devised in usage. A diversity thinks differently from one another and acceptance does not itself dictate what kind of acceptance specifically. A Neurodiverse reality means simply a diversity exists but cannot dictate to individuals how it is in spite of diversity they have to think among the vast diversity that comprises human.

Can it be agreed that Neurodiversity simply is a concept denoting a diversity exists? That the concept itself is not about dictating personal and individual choices? Can it be that simple or must it become potentially further non-relevant because of agenda's promoting aside from a diversity existing that this diversity must think only certain ways about their individual unique circumstances experiencing this diversity. Can it just be so very simple it's kind of common sense?


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vermontsavant
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16 Aug 2011, 8:35 am

nuerodiversity is new but it will be recognized.maybe one day people on this forum may actualy acknowledge this concept,by that i dont mean you im talking about other people on this forum.honestly i have got more kindness from parents of dd children on AS than from most people here.


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ci
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16 Aug 2011, 12:39 pm

I've been seriously debating with myself on whether to take it on as some kind of sub-slogan in the realm of influence I am able to reach. I just don't want to have it used to create hard feelings. Further empowering a concept some use for their abortion politics and to confront any kind of misunderstanding that then creates hard feelings might be unavoidable. A relevant societal transition can take place from the old ways of looking kind of down at people with DD in theory and including myself as having autism in the disability sense as not equal human beings in some forms of attitudes and I've seen this at times to a diversity and equal being kind of mentality. It does though fit the really new kinds of approach I use to insight differing ways of thinking about people with regards to inclusion. A Neurodiversity radio and otherwise media and so on campaign for inclusion I could easily implement. Just there is something about how it has been used in the past that makes me feel as if by using it some or more would come along and try to use it against the efforts I create because they don't exactly think as I do. Really that sort of fear I think may be the reason why some people don't try to bother in the first place and the same is true even when efforts are led by people with a form of autism. It can be a very hostile social reality any form of these autism politics and there is very little respect for the existence of a diversity of mindsets. People try to make others conform at times to theirs or they hate on them and their beliefs.


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AlanTuring
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16 Aug 2011, 5:06 pm

New day - new thread - same stuff.

At least the autismcandles link is gone.


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ci
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16 Aug 2011, 5:17 pm

AlanTuring wrote:
New day - new thread - same stuff.

At least the autismcandles link is gone.


Your despondency toward a project that employs people that are excluded from the mainstream is suspect. According to your profile your not even diagnosed. And in fact according to you're statements you have a PHD and have achieved a great deal. I'd suggest you back off from hating on and seeking to dis-promote the hopes of others in their achievements. It goes to show that folks like you are kind of out of touch with autism as a disability in reality and things like candles as a job for instance when few other things existed just are not that big of deal to a hot shot PHD that seems to good for it.

With regards to this post if you don't like it as it is an unusual topic don't partake. Neurodiversity to some is an important topic. I believe the concept can have a great much more social awareness and effect within society. Understanding why it has not as of yet and potential reasons to improve the situation I believe to be a human rights issue potentially enabling inclusion that unlike yourself who is already quite included is not very much of personal importance and need for you.


Another day another quite unproductive, dismissive and counter productive to rationale development comment from you.


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16 Aug 2011, 5:24 pm

I notice that history repeats itself every 25 hours in the Autism Activism forum. :roll:


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ci
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16 Aug 2011, 5:34 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I notice that history repeats itself every 25 hours in the Autism Activism forum. :roll:


Well don't you support Neurodiversity? I'm trying to find a way of promoting the concept without causing further social conflict. Less conflict would be something entirely new!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM&feature=related[/youtube]


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AlanTuring
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16 Aug 2011, 5:41 pm

ci wrote:
Your despondency toward a project that employs people that are excluded from the mainstream is suspect.


I don't think that 'despondency' is quite the word you wanted to use.

As you are well aware, I have nothing against a legitimate program that employs people gainfully. I raised some questions yesterday regarding whether your company makes medical claims and whether it truly benefits from its association with you. I understand that these questions make you uncomfortable.

ci wrote:
According to your profile your not even diagnosed.


I have not been diagnosed with Asperger's. At 54, I am unlikely to pursue an official diagnosis.

Do you have a problem with people who are not formally diagnosed? Are we second-class aspies or auties as far as you are concerned? Are we less damaged or less traumatized because we haven't gone doctor-shopping?

You have one hell of a lot of nerve.

ci wrote:
And in fact according to you're statements you have a PHD and have achieved a great deal. I'd suggest you back off from hating on and seeking to dis-promote the hopes of others in their achievements. It goes to show that folks like you are kind of out of touch with autism as a disability in reality and things like candles as a job for instance when few other things existed just are not that big of deal to a hot shot PHD that seems to good for it.


I was in college for many years and earned several degrees. So what? This means that I wasn't troubled, that I had it easy, that my thoughts don't count because I haven't suffered enough to be in your club?

Nonsense. You can't tell a thing from education and degrees about what a person has gone through. I dropped out of college twice because of major depression, spent nine years as an undergrad changing majors, doing horribly and well in the same terms, being alone, and feeling like a failure the entire time. I've had two other major depressions that resulted in my losing jobs and in not working for a while.

How dare you continue to describe me as a hater and ruiner of hopes. I said that, based upon reading your posts, I don't think you are ready to write a book. That is an honest and factual statement that was made to give you some feedback that I think you really need. The only reason I mentioned my long education is because you suggested that the reason that I find your writing difficult to read is because I am unable to deal with abstract matters.

I have never disparaged making candles or doing any other honest work, and I resent your suggestions that I have.

ci wrote:
With regards to this post if you don't like it as it is an unusual topic don't partake. Neurodiversity to some is an important topic. I believe the concept can have a great much more social awareness and effect within society. Understanding why it has not as of yet and potential reasons to improve the situation I believe to be a human rights issue potentially enabling inclusion that unlike yourself who is already quite included is not very much of personal importance and need for you.


I think that this thread, like your others, is merely an excuse for you to create another venue to spout your usual nastiness. I suggested yesterday that you keep this stuff in one thread rather than creating new threads to create the illusion of movement. You obviously did not take my advice to heart.

ci wrote:
Another day another quite unproductive, dismissive and counter productive to rationale development comment from you.


Now that I've become aware of your posting style and intentions, I shall pay attention to your threads and post when I have something to say. In particular, if you say something that I disagree with or find to be in error, I will feel obliged to point this out. If, in the unlikely event that you say something that I agree with, I may point that out as well.

You suggested yesterday that I should stop posting in your threads. You don't have threads - you post OPs and people post as they will. None of this is your property and you don't get to control anything. I have no intention of letting wrong statements go unchallenged.


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ci
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16 Aug 2011, 5:51 pm

You simply desire to attack a program that has achieved a great deal. In theory inclusion and not making candles itself has good health benifits. You conjured up the word aromatherapy which was never mentioned on the site, invented it has to do with candle aromas treating autism and nothing ever was declared but it being a work opportunity. The only thing I am uncomfortable with is how far out of spite some will go for my and others expressing our own personal opinions towards our hopes and just how much of their asses they want ripped politically for trying to punish for being ourselves and thinking for ourselves. Shall our jobs be threatened, our hope to be in the community as you implied I should not receive social services because I work and how about when we don't agree with other kinds of autism politics how we should not own our own organizations because it doesn't go along well with other themed agenda's.

As far as your not being diagnosed and obviously not being substantially disabled compared to individuals like myself that the candle making is for I'd ask you to watch your approach. I could care less about an aspie idea but the real reality of disability rather then simply fitting into autism for social reasons. Your not in the same civil rights and integration league in focus as whom the project is for. Quite frankly your comments as a person with supposed autism are not even qualified because your not diagnosed nor was your diagnoses needed so much that you were unable to gainfully adapt and care for your own needs.

I don't play the I am second class citizen game and your in no position to play it toward myself. I'll be damned if some very high functioning person wants to challenge a project with fallacious arguments when he does not realize the importance of such a project to human inclusion on a personal and emotional level. You sir are at no risk of being excluded unless the world were to fall apart compared to individuals that might otherwise need the additional candle revenue to be included as budgets are cut.


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AlanTuring
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16 Aug 2011, 6:11 pm

I have bolded a few statements for emphasis:

ci wrote:
As far as your not being diagnosed and obviously not being substantially disabled compared to individuals like myself that the candle making is for I'd ask you to watch your approach. I could care less about an aspie idea but the real reality of disability rather then simply fitting into autism for social reasons. Your not in the same civil rights and integration league in focus as whom the project is for. Quite frankly your comments as a person with supposed autism are not even qualified because your not diagnosed nor was your diagnoses needed so much that you were unable to gainfully adapt and care for your own needs.

I don't play the I am second class citizen game and your in no position to play it toward myself. I'll be damned if some very high functioning person wants to challenge a project with fallacious arguments when he does not realize the importance of such a project to human inclusion on a personal and emotional level. You sir are at no risk of being excluded unless the world were to fall apart compared to individuals that might otherwise need the additional candle revenue to be included as budgets are cut.


ci, your comments are outrageous and unfounded.

Diagnosis means nothing in my situation. I am 54. Asperger's wasn't an available diagnosis when I was a kid going through hell in school. You have no right to second-guess people who are not diagnosed.

You have no idea what my level of functioning is. The degrees and school mean little. College was safer than reality for me, so I stayed in college as long as I could. Years of my life have gone by while I was too deeply depressed to care well for myself. I will not be told by an ignorant jerk that my life seems just hunky-dory to him.

So my comments mean nothing because I was not diagnosed? Go to hell.

I have spent my entire life on the fringes, alone and feeling like crap.

There is nothing you have to say that I wish to hear.


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ci
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16 Aug 2011, 6:20 pm

You sir have the attitude of someone that is destructive toward others. If your life was crap but you were able to integrate enough to achieve so much when others cannot where do you get off attempting to challenge the existence of a simple candle making program in California. You sought for it not to be funded simply because I chose to work instead of doing recreation, invented into the meaning of a name called Autism Candles with no facts but imagined it and challenged the health benefit of being included and productive instead of exclusion. No credible medical and or psychological professional would declare exclusion compared to inclusion when chosen by an individual to lack quality of life benefits.

You may be an older individual then I but I've been around long enough to know that some text thing on a screen dis-promoting what little hope there is in a work opportunity especially during a recession ought to be suspect. I'd ask you if you are loyal to a simple point of view over that of human rights inclusion. Do you want to be right so much you would with your words attempt to have the slightest audacity to destroy it then yet claim you are worse off despite great achievements scholastically.

Aside from this other topic I really would like to get into the intellectual premise of the conversation in the original topic. Will you or will you not spare me the time or are you more about declaring without rationale intellectual attempt that it is simply wrong without respectable discourse. I am not to stuburn not to evolve in my understanding as it is but being impatient and declaring your intellectual achievement superiority while not bothering just seems like an insult to the point that because your so smart you shouldn't bother with little ole me.


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ci
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16 Aug 2011, 11:14 pm

Neurodiversity - Then as it is so is diversity!

So I figured I'd first contact 5 or so neurodiversity related organizations with a simple proclamation. In-sighting that indeed diversity exists in manifested persons who are developmentally said disabled. That autism is part of this arrangement as well and that a diversity itself individually thinks, believes and experiences each uniquely. So obviously it is common sense that a diversity can only be defined in such a generic concept ethically as a diversity existing and so in stating ask for a reply about an inclusion agenda using the terminology. No such organizations directly affiliated with ASAN will be contacted out of respect for their individual and unique approaches I'd rather not have membership to to preserve their already decided agenda's compared to those not involved!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0hQ7b4pvxA[/youtube]


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17 Aug 2011, 1:40 am

Seriously this is ridiculous

you are all bickering with each other, but to feel better about yourselves you are using big words so that you don't feel like the very uneducated 'gangsters' that you despise.

I was quite interested in reading this forum and learning about neurodiversity, but it's descended into a slag-fest between members, I'm not too sure I can be bothered anymore.

I don't mean to be snobby, but seriously, if you have a problem with someone, can you just PM them? So you don't interrupt the forum?

Sorry to be so negative


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ci
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17 Aug 2011, 1:47 am

I've done PM's several times with people. It's kind of hard when they go from post to post name calling, putting people down and claim how much smarter they are and how one point of view just doesn't count because of a degree. Oh well I've tried to create the constructive conversation and there are few on this sub-forum that go ahead and then speak reasonably with me but at times otherwise it's just the preferred social politics. That's the nature of politics and why I don't go on political forums, blogs or news article postings other then this very specific one. However the issues are to important that I cannot avoid this one without deriving some understanding needed for a real-life job.

I've asked for PM's instead of this several times.


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AlanTuring
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17 Aug 2011, 7:34 pm

Davuardo wrote:
I don't mean to be snobby, but seriously, if you have a problem with someone, can you just PM them? So you don't interrupt the forum?

Sorry to be so negative


I'm sorry, Davuardo, but if someone publicly says things that are wrong or derogatory, I think it is important to express contrary opinions just as publicly.

For the record, I have never been PM'd by ci.


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