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MrXxx
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15 Nov 2012, 9:24 am

:lol:

oo! 8) Time to get comfortable. This could turn into something worth watching. :coffee:


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dalurker
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15 Nov 2012, 7:02 pm

fluffypinkyellow wrote:

People with severe autism aren't so much noncommunicative as unable to communicate in mainstream ways. I also think the idea of low functioning is relative, as is the idea of non-communication. This video really illustrates this point to me. In this video, everyone believed that this girl was unable to communicate at all for years. She was thought to be "low functioning" for most of her life until she started communicating through typing:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_GXVzZ0Unk[/youtube]

And yet, if she had lived 200 years ago, she would have been "unable to communicate". I'm confident that there are a lot of other people affected similarly to her, and they are certainly capable of living fulfilled lives, including jobs, given acceptance and the right opportunities. As technology continues to advance, I imagine more and more autistic people previously thought of as low-functioning or uncommunicative will be able to express themselves. The rest of society would do well to expand its definition of communication.

It has been proven that many on the autism spectrum have deficits in communication. It is part of the diagnostic criteria. You're being anecdotal. Not all autistics who can't speak can communicate verbally like she does by typing. There are some autistics who have some speaking, yet still lack a lot of language skills, and hence can't communicate well. Autism isn't inherently a speech disorder. Expanding the definition of communication beyond reality is not going to occur.



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16 Nov 2012, 3:44 pm

MrXxx wrote:
The question, in context with this thread, is whether she would want to remain the way she is if a cure were available, or would she choose the cure?

Since she's not here to answer, we'll never know, but it's worth pondering.


And the answer there is, some would choose the cure and some wouldn't, just like people who are verbal. We have examples of non-verbal people who can communicate in alternate means who have said they'd personally make both choices. For this person in particular, we don't know. For people in general, we know that some choose each way, just like we'd expect.

We have the evidence to show that whether people are verbal or non-verbal; whether they are independent or dependent on others; whether people identify as mild or severe; whether people can blend in or not; whether people can work a job or not; any of these traits and many more, some people if given a choice would choose to be cured, and others wouldn't.



MrXxx
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16 Nov 2012, 5:00 pm

Tuttle wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
The question, in context with this thread, is whether she would want to remain the way she is if a cure were available, or would she choose the cure?

Since she's not here to answer, we'll never know, but it's worth pondering.


And the answer there is, some would choose the cure and some wouldn't, just like people who are verbal. We have examples of non-verbal people who can communicate in alternate means who have said they'd personally make both choices. For this person in particular, we don't know. For people in general, we know that some choose each way, just like we'd expect.

We have the evidence to show that whether people are verbal or non-verbal; whether they are independent or dependent on others; whether people identify as mild or severe; whether people can blend in or not; whether people can work a job or not; any of these traits and many more, some people if given a choice would choose to be cured, and others wouldn't.


Exactly. And they should have that choice if it is at all possible. And it can't be possible if the research and development isn't done. To rail against their ability to choose seems very wrong.


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17 Nov 2012, 12:49 am

The people that do the selection will have their best interests at the top. And putting any tool into their hands is going to be bad. As long the mountain of misunderstanding and misplaced interests then one has to be sceptical at all times.

I do understand why and how NT can feel chatting, drinking, sexually-related mind games, flirting, gossiping, talking about nothing etc as a rewarding activity. It's more like a synesthesia. But not being neurologically pulled in into drama generating activities is beneficial.

It's not a question of understanding theory of mind, it's question of how rewarding activities are and what group that set the standard.



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20 Nov 2012, 6:22 pm

There will never be a "cure" for autism, just as there will never be a "cure" for left-handedness or homosexuality (two other differences that were once thought to be mental diseases by the small-minded and bigoted hoi polloi).

These are innate differences of neurology, and likely genetic. Nothing can change that.

Even if there was a magic potion that I could drink to become neurotypical, I would not take it.

Aspergian is who I am. Remove that and I am fundamentally a different person.

I like being me.



MrXxx
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20 Nov 2012, 6:58 pm

TBH, I don't think there ever will be either. ^^^


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20 Nov 2012, 10:41 pm

MrXxx wrote:
Exactly. And they should have that choice if it is at all possible. And it can't be possible if the research and development isn't done. To rail against their ability to choose seems very wrong.


I don't see anything wrong with wanting a cure, but the OP and many others tend to frame their arguments in terms of "this other person who is severe and thus I assume not capable of making decisions for themselves should be cured. There's a tendency here to lock certain kinds of autistic people out of discussions, often by claiming that such people could never post on a forum or want to post on a forum, so everyone who does automatically does not fit that category, even when they do because such a generalization is bound to be false, even if true for specific people.

I think this whole conversation would annoy me much less if people weren't quick to define a group of autistic people whom they then appoint themselves as speaking for, whether said people want to be spoken for or not, whether they want to be spoken for on that topic or not.



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21 Nov 2012, 2:07 am

0neironaut wrote:
There will never be a "cure" for autism, just as there will never be a "cure" for left-handedness or homosexuality (two other differences that were once thought to be mental diseases by the small-minded and bigoted hoi polloi).

These are innate differences of neurology, and likely genetic. Nothing can change that.

Even if there was a magic potion that I could drink to become neurotypical, I would not take it.

Aspergian is who I am. Remove that and I am fundamentally a different person.

I like being me.

Firstly on the one hand you use the word Autism, then Aspergian. Who says they are the same, or even a related thing? A spectrum of (observations) does not make it so.
As for the rest, you have no evidence to back that up other than you own opinion. Which in itself doesn't mean you are wrong, but certainly doesn't mean you are right either (but I'll take your word on the last point).



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21 Nov 2012, 2:17 am

nostromo wrote:
Firstly on the one hand you use the word Autism, then Aspergian. Who says they are the same, or even a related thing? A spectrum of (observations) does not make it so.


Actually, many researchers who make a living studying autism and autistic people say they're the same or related. It's actually pretty easy to find research that supports this. Even researchers that view these things as separate acknowledge numerous links.

Also, many people diagnosed with AS actually meet the criteria for autism and not for AS. Some people have been diagnosed with two or all three of AS, autism, and PDD-NOS at various times in their lives.

Quote:
As for the rest, you ave no evidence to back that up other than you own opinion. Which in itself doesn't mean you are wrong, but certainly doesn't mean you are right either (but I'll take your word on the last point).


There are probably as many good reasons to be skeptical about the development of a cure as there are to be optimistic about the development of a cure.



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30 Nov 2012, 2:20 am

Please do not find this offensive, but ASD is a disease and diseases should be cured. We are ill and need help, no different then someone with bipolar or some other illness.



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30 Nov 2012, 2:22 am

0neironaut wrote:
There will never be a "cure" for autism, just as there will never be a "cure" for left-handedness or homosexuality (two other differences that were once thought to be mental diseases by the small-minded and bigoted hoi polloi).

These are innate differences of neurology, and likely genetic. Nothing can change that.

Even if there was a magic potion that I could drink to become neurotypical, I would not take it.

Aspergian is who I am. Remove that and I am fundamentally a different person.

I like being me.


Autism is a disease unlike left handedness and homosexuality. Big difference.



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30 Nov 2012, 2:44 am

DVCal wrote:
Please do not find this offensive, but ASD is a disease and diseases should be cured. We are ill and need help, no different then someone with bipolar or some other illness.


All due respect to your 'please' but that is a highly offensive statement you've made and I take much offense to it. Surely you couldn't expect people to just say 'oh, well you said please so it's cool'. You just called us diseased. How could I not be offended?


There is no question that a cure for autism of any spectrum could be a good thing. There are many people, many children who are locked inside their own mind with no way of communicating with the outside world. They are, in every aspect, prisoners in their own minds and we, not just as a group here but as a people in a whole, should do all we can to help them.
That being said, though, autism to me is the prism through which I view the world. Aspergers is not a condition I live with, it is HOW I THINK. To say I need a cure, to say I am diseased means that you wish to fundamentally change how I think which is the basis for who I am as a person, as an individual. You have no right to do that, no right to say that. I, and others like me, function perfectly well with our little quirks and in no way do we need a magic bullet to merge us with the neurotypical masses. We offer something unique, something different to the human experience. That difference should be embraced, not shunned, certainly not subjected to derision disguised as pity as people use us as props for fundraising to find a "cure".



If you look at people who are blind or communities of the deaf and ask them if they'd like a cure for their particular difference, you'd be amazed at how many would refuse. They have their own life, their own culture, and see their difference not as a handicap, but just another aspect of who they are, individually and as a group. Much like them, I take high offense to anyone who speaks of a blanket 'cure' for autism. Yes, some would want it, some do need it, but not all of us. Some of us are just fine the way we are.


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30 Nov 2012, 2:48 am

DVCal wrote:
0neironaut wrote:
There will never be a "cure" for autism, just as there will never be a "cure" for left-handedness or homosexuality (two other differences that were once thought to be mental diseases by the small-minded and bigoted hoi polloi).

These are innate differences of neurology, and likely genetic. Nothing can change that.

Even if there was a magic potion that I could drink to become neurotypical, I would not take it.

Aspergian is who I am. Remove that and I am fundamentally a different person.

I like being me.


Autism is a disease unlike left handedness and homosexuality. Big difference.


Disease: noun
a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.


We are not a disease. We are not diseased. We are different. There is a difference. We are not incorrect, we are different. We are not sick, we are different. Abnormal does not equal wrong.


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thewhitrbbit
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30 Nov 2012, 9:35 am

Yes and No. Try telling that to the parents who are home bound because their kids can't handle going out the front door. I'm sure they will agree there is nothing wrong at all...



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30 Nov 2012, 2:17 pm

Hardship does not equal wrong.


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