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lostgirl1986
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Fnord
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03 Oct 2012, 9:48 am

Does this mean that we all evaporate into a haze of improbability?


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thewhitrbbit
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03 Oct 2012, 9:49 am

It's DSM-V related changes.



Fnord
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03 Oct 2012, 9:51 am

"There was so much confusion of who had Asperger’s and who didn’t", according to Dr. Catherine Lord, director of the Center for Autism and the Developing Brain.

Maybe we'll see fewer self-diagnosed "Aspies" claiming to be the real deal.


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SickInDaHead
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03 Oct 2012, 10:13 am

Fnord wrote:
Does this mean that we all evaporate into a haze of improbability?



We'll just get downgraded to "just an a**hole that nobody likes".

Pretty much the same as before knowing about AS.

On the upside, without AS, we don't get accused of trying to have an excuse for just being an a**hole that nobody likes. But maybe we can still use "AS" and "A" just means a**hole.


The end results are still the same.



redrobin62
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03 Oct 2012, 2:07 pm

Dr. Hallyday n the article says people previously diagnosed with Asperger's should be able to keep that diagnosis. We'll see. The article's intense focus on children, though, leaves a lot to be desired. Seems like those over 18 are getting the shaft.



Fnord
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03 Oct 2012, 2:15 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
Dr. Hallyday n the article says people previously diagnosed with Asperger's should be able to keep that diagnosis. We'll see. The article's intense focus on children, though, leaves a lot to be desired. Seems like those over 18 are getting the shaft.

Don't we always? Except when one of us is the perpetrator or victim of a crime, which is when someone notices just long enough for a quick sound bite or reaction shot. Then it's back to anonymity for us...


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aghogday
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03 Oct 2012, 5:21 pm

The consistencies made to describe the disorders in comparison to the individuals diagnosed with them as quoted below from the linked topic article seem to be in opposition to each other:

Quote:
There is no biological or genetic reason why Asperger’s should be separated on its own, said Dr. Evdokia Anagnostou, a child neurologist at Holland Bloorview Kids Rehabilitation Hospital.

“We assumed they were different but it looks like they are not,” she said. “Now we can call them all autism.”

Quote:
Child psychiatrist Dr. Peter Szatmari, a professor at McMaster University and a noted expert on autism, said the changes are a “good thing” as it will speed up the diagnostic progress.

But he cautioned that autism is “incredibly heterogeneous.”

“In 30 years, I don’t think I could say I have seen two cases the same,” he said, adding every child with autism needs his or her own individually tailored treatment path.

“You can’t treat a 2-year-old who is profoundly intellectually disabled and without language as the same as a 7-year-old who is very chatty about their stamp collection,” he said.

“We need a way to capture that diversity,” he said. “This is the part that I am still not clear about.”


The fact that the DSM removed factors associated with developmental delays associated with cognitive development and language development from what is understood to be a neurodevelopmental disorder, from the basic criteria in the revised definition, doesn't make the biological and genetically determined elements behind those delays that are different between some forms of the disorder magically go away too.

The factor of language development while hidden from the basic revised criteria is clearly addressed in the new severity levels provided by the DSM, where a complete lack of verbal communication is mentioned in level 3 and not mentioned in level 1 in the descriptions provided by the DSM in the severity levels.

There is no reason to call them different things, when one can describe them as the same thing in basic criteria and different things in effect per severity levels, otherwise known as smoke and mirrors. One can then even pretend that the neurological and biological factors associated with very different forms of the disorder are irrelevant as well as the overt characteristics that differentiate the different forms of the disorder, and then justify the change from the get go, in studying records of testing data, similar among individuals with more meticulously clinically assessed forms of Aspergers as compared to the records of those diagnosed with Autism Disorder and PDD NOS, rather than observation of behavior in the chaos of differences among real people across a wide range of clinical settings where the methodology of diagnosis varies widely. All of which has culminated in a reality of having no clear idea what the results of re-diagnosis are going to be in the real world, across the entire spectrum, other than a guess based on laboratory analysis of testing records.

So back to the question posed in the second quote in the article as to how one captures the diversity. It's seems straightforward one acknowledges, defines, and labels the differences, and targets those differences with different treatments as appropriate. They've moved the goal line from differently described disorders to one more narrowly described spectrum disorder, now acknowledging most of the same differences that were acknowledged before in the descriptions of the different disorders, through severity levels instead, separate from the new revised DSM5 basic criteria for Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Perhaps the most unusual statement is one provided by the co-author of the research, Catherine Lord, in attempting to justify the efficacy of the DSM5 revision, suggesting that the new criteria is intended and designed as broad principles whereby diagnosing professionals can observe behaviors in individuals to fit those broad principles provided in the new revised criteria, also stating she would be surprised if many people do not fit the new criteria, that most everyone, including her own actual research providing a suggestion of a 10% reduction of ASD diagnoses, agrees will result in overall fewer diagnoses of ASD's, as a result of a more narrowly defined criteria for the one disorder rather than 5 disorders. 10% of 2 million cases in the US is 200,000 people. If her own research were to prove out as an accurate indicator, that would definitely meet a standard definition of many people with a different diagnosis, if all were re-diagnosed.

The reality is that most diagnosing professionals will probably grandfather most into the new diagnostic classification, potentially justifying that action with reports like the one above from Catherine Lord. I'm not sure why the ones that care about their patients would want to take part in playing what is looking like a more unusual game of professional rhetoric as time goes one, if they don't have to. But it is the new patients that will more likely not receive a new diagnosis unless the clinical professionals continue to base their diagnoses on their same observations of the past, regardless of the changes in the DSM5. Eventually new professionals coming into the field, may be more strict, as they are more properly trained per the standards of the new criteria. By the time that happens there will likely be the attitude that "see the DSM5 didn't significantly impact anyone anyone".

It is notable that there has been no attention in studying the impact of the DSM5 revision on adults currently diagnosed on the spectrum, and I personally don't see that happening, as the diagnosis in adulthood is much rarer than diagnosis in childhood. The small field studies so far are based on new diagnoses of children, the results of which are coming in at less than a 10 percent reduction of total ASD's diagnosed.

In my opinion most people that already have a diagnosis, per what will happen in reality, have little need for concern that they will lose their current diagnosis. If computers start to diagnosis people instead of human beings, then there might be significant concern warranted.



LennytheWicked
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05 Oct 2012, 11:09 pm

My therapist rediagnosed me.

I don't know what to think. On one hand, I need some of the services, but on the other hand, I get discriminated against at school and in legal proceedings [there have been some really ridiculous incidents I won't elaborate on].

Hopefully it makes it easier to get some of the services I need.



profofhumanities
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24 Oct 2012, 2:24 pm

I can't agree loudly enough about the inattention to people over 18 who have Asperger's. It's not like people outgrow being Aspie. (If you ask my 10-year-old, he will say he doesn't want to outgrow his Asperger's or get "cured." He's convinced a loss of the diagnosis would make him stupid.) :)


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thomas81
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24 Oct 2012, 3:58 pm

Poor Hans Asperger.

His work was discounted for so many years now its being discounted again.



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24 Oct 2012, 6:43 pm

So it looks like I have ASD and not AS. AS no longer exists. But hey, now the only two problems I have are TS and OCD.


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24 Oct 2012, 8:21 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Poor Hans Asperger.

His work was discounted for so many years now its being discounted again.


Poors Hans indeed :(



Jono
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26 Oct 2012, 2:59 am

thomas81 wrote:
Poor Hans Asperger.

His work was discounted for so many years now its being discounted again.


His work isn't being discounted. In fact, he actually did believe that Asperger syndrome (he called it autistic psychopathy) was a mild form of classical autism and that autism was a spectrum, although Leo Kanner disagreed. All that's happening with the DSM V is that Asperger's is going to be folded into a broader diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder because current research has shown little difference between Asperger's and high functioning autism, like what Hans Asperger originally believed.



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26 Oct 2012, 3:05 am

Fnord wrote:
"There was so much confusion of who had Asperger’s and who didn’t", according to Dr. Catherine Lord, director of the Center for Autism and the Developing Brain.

Maybe we'll see fewer self-diagnosed "Aspies" claiming to be the real deal.


You and your obsession with self diagnosed people, as if claiming to have the disorder on your profile actually proves you do.


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DerStadtschutz
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26 Oct 2012, 3:06 am

Fnord wrote:

Maybe we'll see fewer self-diagnosed "Aspies" claiming to be the real deal.


Um... if you're an aspie, you're an aspie, whether you have a piece of paper that says so or not. You act like Asperger's is some ritzy country club or some s**t...