If there was a designated country for Aspies

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Looking at the policiticians who run our countries now - the lies, kickbacks, sectional interests, corruption - I can't see that it would be either as bad or worse. Democracy has been hijacked in most countries to best serve the wealthy, the powerful, rather than the common good. I don't know if Aspies could do better. It would be different. Politics is the formulation and enforcement of policy, and the management (or mismanagement) of revenue, wherever it occurs.

I think we could and would do so much better. I can not see us receiving our own country, but I am excited about the autistic neighborhood communities in the planning stages right now. [including the one our family is working on] I believe that a community of individuals who do not tend to admire and agree with others based on their predatory behavior a plus. I believe that a community that does not need "omegas" to use as scapegoats a plus. I believe that a community that does not worship facades, pretentiousness and alpha traits a plus. I believe a community that does not base "worthiness" on physical beauty, adherence to the current seasons makeup palette, hair and clothing styles a plus. I believe that a community where the most revered are not the ones who greedily pursue huge material wealth for themselves a plus. I believe that a community that respects and encourages individuality and pursuit of passions, a plus. I believe that a community with less blaring sounds, fewer people feeling entitled to physically touch another without their permission, and eliminates crazy lights a plus. I believe that a community that believes people of all ages should be allowed to be friends with people both younger and older than themselves, a plus. I believe that a community where those in residence DO consider themselves their brothers keeper [or at least part of their support team] and agrees that it does take a village,[ a village where bullying is NEVER considered alright or "not that big of a deal"] to raise a child, a plus.

I could go on and on, but for me the bottom line is ; A community where Autistic people are not treated so badly that their young people have a 28 TIMES higher rate of attempted,planned, and succesful suicides than NT young people raised in an NT culture. Happy and stable people, a HUGE plus.

Vicky, I have a couple of questions.

You may have answered this one already, but I haven't seen it. This community you keep talking about inside an already existing community. Is the already existing one the nudist colony? I'm just curios.

Other question, purely philosophical in regard to your post above. I think sometimes that the reason that we Aspies aren't as mean as non aspies is because we are at the bottom of the chain and have no standing to be mean. I'm not saying all of us, but on the average it seems sensible to think that any group of people will be just as malicious as any other group (well maybe not Nazis).

What I'm getting at is once Aspies are separated from the social pressures of survival that exist on the non Aspie world, don't you think a normal hierarchy will fall into place and some of them will wind up on the bottom? Didn't you even mention something like that happening at your retreat? I'm not saying I know it will, I just don't particularly think Aspies are any more saintly than anybody else. (I keep saying Aspie, I mean Autistic.)

Precisely... A world where we are treated better would be amazing... but the thing is... most of the insults and punishment that Aspies perceive from NTs are just the way they treat themselves and others...

That is why I am working as hard as I am to foster NT/Aspie relations... if they can understand us, our lives can improve... An Aspie country isn't the solution... education and awareness is...

Actually, I saw your website. That was why I made my comment. Way better than say a Big Business country.

I appreciate it...

That idea frightens me a lot... it reminds me a lot of those Marxist revolutionaries in the previous century... ---> the majority of the "banana-republics" is a consequence of that... And as with all utopic ideas, the core of it might be well, but finally it will fail miserably... Also, just take the human nature in consideration, no country/nation would ever allow a part of their territory being annexed for creating another country... (just look at Israel atm..) that newly founded nation/country would be surrounded by hostile neighbours, with also a big part of other distant countries simply not recognising your nation. So all the resources needed in to create the nation, run it and put in practice the good starting ideas, would just go into an arms race in order to defend yourselves.. So that is only the "practical" side of it... Now the "ethical" side... By installing a segregation (because it is one: key functions only for this kind of "neuro-type") you would eventually become like those you loath.. (Nietschze has some nice saying on that.) of course all that is only hypothetical and would require at least some decennia before becoming practically viable though.
I think the best one can do is simply trying to improve actual society for all of us by trying to change perception of "normal NT" towards "others" (which in a way is already absurd to think of NT as the "norm"..) Also, why in all the syndroms the "D" is standing for "disorder" and not just for "difference"? By changing the denomination of "illness" one can already change the global perception.. It is up to "others" and NT's together to improve things. Of course one can always dream and imagine his/her/it's perfect nation (like for example a world without human beings at all... or whatever mwahahaha ). Anyway whatever the future might be, let us just try to improve it
Cordially, MDK

The commmunity being planned is in no way related to the nudist club where I now live.

As far as meanness, this is how I think. I used to be considered quite attractive, had a decent ammount of money, and was a great [could have won an award] actress. For years I was accepted in the NT world. When I was in no way an Omega, I was still never ever mean to anyone.
Our family also spends time helping homeless people in Denver. Estimates are that about 30% of the homeless are Autistic. Having big-time "Autist-dar," I would agree with those figures. I noticed that the Autistics were no more likely in the inner-city culture to be omegas than anyone else [maybe less so] What I DO notice? The homeless Autistics[ in general] are MORE likely to make sure that the physically disabled, the pregnant women, the people with children, etc. are taken care of, even when that means doing without [because we run out] Also, before I became involved in an Autistic support group,[GRASP Denver] whenever life was too cruel to handle, I would go downtown to get hugs and prayers from my Autistic homeless brothers and sisters. I was never once turned away.

Yes, there was a problem at AutHaven. It bothered and still does bother me. This person was treated kindly but there was much talking behind his back and there were times he was not invited to impromptu activities initiated by attendees. Even today someone called me and asked if there was someway to prevent this person from attending next year.{Iam so against excluding him,or anyone, and made that abundantly clear] Some of the people who had a problem with this particular person DO recognize that and realize it is tHEIR responsibility to change that thinking.

Okay,back to the Autistic community. No one will be forced to be a member of the community. Many Autistics would HATE it. Though not as innate a need as in most NTs', there are [a lower percentage] Autistics who would attempt to build a heirarchy. Some of the people who attended autHaven, though incredible people,would NOT be comfortable in our community. We are hoping for residents who wish to work together helping each other to be the best Autistic people we can be.
The best way to describe what I mean is by explaining a little bit about the nudist ranch. Occassionaly an exhibitionship shows up all excited to show off their naked body to everyone here. They come. They leave. They do not come back. Why? Because though they are treated well by everyone they meet, no one is attacted to their exhibitionism. they would be better off looking for that type of attention pretty much anywhere else. Same thing.

Also,I DO believe in actively working on NT, Autistic relations [every person who donated money or baked a pie for AutHaven was NT.] I believe in doing both things concurrently though. [ our kids are taking their own lives NOW. they are unemployable NOW. They are feeling'less than"NOW. they are suffering through unnecesary stimulation NOW]
Right now, a few of us are putting together a group [tentatively titled, E=ap2, which stands for "Energy equals Autistic Power Squared." We plan, through enjoyable entertainment, to help assist NTs' in learning to accept us. There will be singing, dancing,skits, and speaking [plus good free food] We will probably have our first "performance"here at the ranch. We are excited about it.

Which reminds me. Feralucce, in your 'care and feeding" series, you have a list of things to never say to an Autistic person. I would be so grateful if you would allow us to use some of the sayings on your list in a skit for our group. The list is kind of funny and extremely educational [we would of course list your b log as our inspiration]

Lots of unanswered questions.

1. Where in the world should this country be located? What sort of climate and terrain is best for us? I have thought about carrying out a coup in some obscure and downtrodden African country (personally I think that people with ASD from the west could build a much better nation than the natives who spend most of their efforts in tribal warfare) but is this an ideal location and climate?

2. What diplomatic relationships should the country have with the rest of the world? Should it be friendly with western Europe and the US or should it be hostile towards the US and other countries that treat people with ASD badly? Are you happy to have friendly diplomatic relationships with pariah states like Venezuela and Iran? Should the country be an ally or an opponent of Israel?

3. How should the citizenship laws be defined? Would dual nationality be recognised?

4. What do you propose as the official language?

5. Should the country develop nuclear weapons?

The trend in recent decades is for nations to move to Ricardian economics where they focus their efforts onto a few sectors of the economy that they are good at rather than trying to create a diverse economy. It has caused many nations to lose several of their once prominent industries.

I think there are many high intellectual calibre industries that can be used to form the basis of the economy of the nation.

Ferralucce; I don't think that you would want to live in our community. I don't think it would be the "right fit" for you. BUT, I hope you come visit in five years or so. I think you will be pleasantly surprised [though still aware it's not your "cup of tea." I think you will love it and that you will make a beyond incredible documentary about it.

Also, this community is not being set up to avoid all NTs'. It's also a place where Autistic space is practiced, and respected. From social interaction, to lighting, to the education of our kids, to easier access to Autistic mentorship, to helping each other balance our strengths and weaknesses, to being around people who "get" each other, to non-driving autistics being able to be caretakers to the severely disabled person who lives across the street[ I am aware that the law is now that a drivers license is required] to teaching each other basic life skills that many Autistics do not learn while growing up[ How nice for someone who never learned to iron or wash clothing, or cook, to run next door and learn, without judgement, exactly HOW to seperate clothes, fold a shirt, or caramelize onions, to being comfortable asking neighbors if they know who is hiring calculus tutors, selling a cheap but well-running mini-van, or giving away living room furniture WITHOUT first having to go through lengthy small talk while trying to figure out a way to get the conversation to what you were actually seeking.

At AutHaven, our first night we served a traditional Thanksgiving type dinner. People told me that it was like they had only dreamed Thanksgiving could be. One person cried because he had not been treated special that way since he was a little kid. So, yeah, planned events that allow people to know they are cherished will be a big part of this community. And needed.

Also, being a planned intentional community WITHIN an already existing community will allow us the opportunity to establish positive relationships with, and acceptance BY our NT neighbors. Though I'll be passing out a gazillion homemade cookies door to door [and I can present well,so long as it is ten minutes or less], we will have a monthly open house in one of the initial homes, encourage people to actively work at being good neighbors with the NTs'. [of course not all Autistics would be willing to do this.We are hoping to attract those who DO want these things and are willing to work at them] I have to tell the truth, though, I am aware that the power of a homemade loaf of bread or mowing the lawn for the guy in the hospital can only go so far. That is my biggest fear. By far. But other Autistics have ideas, and I hope to develop many NT allies in our community. [ most NTs' are pretty nice people, just ignorant]

Guess that's all for now. Oh, and Ferralucce, if by chance this would be something that would be you, your skills in writing, film making, and inventing video games would be WAAAY beyond adequate to be a contributing member. [ but, c'mon. you already know that]

If I ever get a chance to relocate, I would sincerely like to be part of this. I'm too sick to say anything coherent about it but trying to be on par with everyone else is seriously wearing me down. Although my partner just told me he wants to stay in Canada. Maybe someone can help us organize one here? I know a few people already who would be interested, I'm just not really knowledgeable about the system, legal issues, etc.

I have a picture of you in my head - you are still very attractive, but it's because your cheerful hopeful soul is poking out of your skin. Age or cancer can't change that!

You are so much more optimistic than I am about any group of humans, however, you make it all sound so possible!

Thank you for the compliments... I commend you on what you are doing. That is not the same as this thought experiment, though...

I appreciate your sentiment, but I am not a documentarian... as much as I wish I was...

AND I appreciate the offer, but... unless it is in the New Orleans metro area, I have to decline... New Orleans is my home, and always will be.

While I don't think we should idolate ourselves from the rest of the world, it's a fun idea to think about. I'm sure we all know the solutions to problems like gun violence and teen pregnancy, but governments all around the world are too dumb to actually execute them. That'd be something we could do better.
Also, where the hell would it be?

It's not the same as this thought experiment but I think it's actually better. The problem with Big Idea thought experiment threads is that the things they propose aren't actually possible but are so grand that they serve to make the do-able ideas look too inconsequential. The Autistic Intentional Community is do-able (is apparently in the process of being done). But when it gets described in an Autistic Country thread it just looks so small scale. The frequent Aspergia threads seem to me like an unintentional trap that steers people away from the less thrilling but far more achievable goal of an intentional community.

A Promised Land for Geeks, Nerds, Aspies and Obsessed people. I love it!

It will be the smartest country in the world, but not well able to defend itself against evil Neurotipicals.

ruveyn