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Which makes the most sense to you?
Autism Cure 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Autism Acceptance 76%  76%  [ 39 ]
Autism Supremacy 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Autism Separatism 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
No Opinion 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Undecided 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
None of the above 16%  16%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 51

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30 Apr 2015, 12:26 pm

Of the following schools of thought, which do you feel most closely represents your views on the future of autism?
In other words, which of the following points of view do you support the most.

Included is a list of generalisations of the different "camps" in-case anyone is not aware of their meaning.

The summaries are far from perfect and if anyone can message me better ways to summarise the different points of view then please do.

Autistic Cure
The idea that autism is a disorder that needs to be cured, members of this camp usually (but not always) believe that autistics should try and adapt to neurotypical rituals and culture and generally are more of the view that the cons associated with being on the autism spectrum far outweigh the pros.

Autistic Acceptance
(This is the hardest school of thought for me to summarise as it is even more open to interpretation than the others.)
Members of this school are usually (but not always) quite proud of their autism, many members of this school of thought tend to believe that autism is something that needs to be accepted rather then cured. Some members of this camp want to be regarded by the international community as an oppressed minority that should receive extra support at the neurotypical's expense.

Autistic Supremacy
Usually all members of this school of thought believe that the pros of autism far outweigh the cons, members of this camp tend to believe that possessing autistic traits makes high functioning autistics superior in many ways (in comparison to neurotypicals) and as a consequence of this, society would be improved greatly for both neurotypicals and autistics if they were making all of the decisions. Members of this school of thought tend to have a very "us or them" mentality towards neurotypicals.

Autistic Separatists
Members of this school of thought tend to believe that autistics should establish their own communities, free of neurotypical influence. Like the supremacists, members of this school of thought sometimes tend to have an "us vs them" mentality towards neurotypicals and as a consequence of this wish to isolate themselves. Some members of this school of thought may feel that all autistics are obligated to join them, whereas others may feel that only willing members should participate.

No Opinion
No real view on the issue, perhaps due to apathy.

Undecided
Not sure yet

None of the above
In other words, other.
May or may not think that this thread is a complete waste of time filled with over generalisations, or may feel that I have missed out a category and therefore must select another box.

Remember guys, re-voting is enabled as I believe that it is healthy to change your opinions in light of new evidence.

Please also provide lots of discussion, and do not be afraid to justify your viewpoints!!



AlienorAspie
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30 Apr 2015, 5:09 pm

Quote:
Autistic Acceptance
(This is the hardest school of thought for me to summarise as it is even more open to interpretation than the others.)
Members of this school are usually (but not always) quite proud of their autism, many members of this school of thought tend to believe that autism is something that needs to be accepted rather then cured. Some members of this camp want to be regarded by the international community as an oppressed minority that should receive extra support at the neurotypical's expense.


I voted autistic acceptance because I feel it is the closest fit. I would be quite proud of my (self-diagnosed, soon-to-be assessed) autism. I believe it is the reason I am so creative- my brain had to find ways of adapting. I also see it as a disability because the very concept is medical and if you're not impaired, why do you have/want a medical diagnosis?

Acceptance and awareness are great, but I think structural violence is a big issue that affects all minorities/disabilities and is almost ignored. I believe if the government and a society expects all its people, regardless of ability, to adhere to complicated rules and procedures, or fill in huge amounts of paperwork to become employed, pay taxes or get healthcare/benefits, they must also provide help to those who aren't capable of navigating the system, whoever they are. Despite me being a seemingly intelligent person, the current systems all involve methods of communicating and organising myself that I'm not capable of and there seems to be no accommodations for me at all.

For example, I recently had my bin stolen and it took me about 3 weeks to be able to ring the council to get it replaced, because I find it extremely distressing to make phonecalls :oops: The council has recently started charging £25 for replacement bins, unless stolen. After ages on hold, the woman said I needed to hang up and call the police line 111 to report it stolen, they'd instantly give me a crime number, i'd ring the council again and get my (already-paid-for-with-my-council-tax) bin delivered. This seemed like a bit of a nuisance but I thought I'd try, even though my phonecall-energy was already nearly gone :/ Tried to ring 111 and it doesnt work from a mobile. Took me ages to find the local police number and psych myself up to call it. The police officer said he had to arrange an appointment for them to come round to the house and take a report (this is the procedure). I asked to make an appointment at the police station instead. He said I could, surprisingly, but I couldnt work out when I'd be available and was so tired by the procedure so far I just gave up and said I'd pay for the bin. I was soooo distressed after 45 mins of phone calls I couldn't face finding my bank card, calling the council again etc, so I never got a new bin.

I've found similar "no, you need to ring the so-and-so department, then ring here, ring there" situations in the NHS too. Last week I made 3 phone calls, to make one appointment with a nurse who could bandage my grandad's leg. No-one seems to realise sick, vulnerable patients can't cope with such complicated systems. Thank god I am there to help my grandparents with it.

I just wonder what happens to the many other people (learning disabled, mentally ill, hard-of-hearing, elderly, busy) who can't do this either. Why can't things like this be made simpler rather than more complicated over time? Just in case you think I'm exaggerating, yesterday another neighbour (a competent, employed mother, unaware of my own bin woes) came to my fence to rant about when she tried to replace her stolen bin, dealt with the phonecalls and had been interviewed by a qualified police officer (a waste of tax money) at her door "For a BIN?!". If even she feels unable to cope then what is going on? Who is making these decisions? It really feels like all the changes (uk) are being made to make money from vulnerable people who aren't able or don't have the time/energy/money to fight for what they need, and to annoy everyone else. Just look at the whole atos debacle- no disabled access in buildings they used for disability assessments etc. How could that even happen?

The council's next idea is to charge us up to £200 per year to park outside our own houses, instead of providing more parking in the town centre. This scheme involves calling the council every time you have a visitor or tradesmen visiting, to give their car registration number. Seriously. My neighbour will need to get his boss to register his work car at his address for him. It's just not possible for everyone to do and IMO is an infringement of privacy too. You have to then consider the less-than-squeaky reputation of parking attendants and, maybe even bailifs. It's so ridiculous I can't help laugh, until I actually need to deal with them. I feel as if I cant cope with what they're doing and I will end up in debt for forgetting to renew or something and getting fined, and it will give me even more reason to reject people visiting me, in case they get a ticket.

Public acceptance is a start, and will help with education/employment, but we really need full-on activism to make sure our beaurocratic systems are not targeting us- it doesn't matter if we are a disability or a minority if we want acceptance or accommodations really. The basic idea is that every group has different strengths and weaknesses and we should all be more accommodating wherever needed.


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MindBlind
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01 May 2015, 3:43 pm

My view of autism is that it is first and foremost a disability and in treating the condition, we need to focus on how best to help people function in society. That means creating better access to early intervention and diagnosis. It also means making sure that society can be accessible to those with disabilities. We need to make sure that people on the spectrum have better access to services to become independent, for employment, to participate in the community, to get accommodation, access to education and various other factors. I know i would not be where I am today without similar initiatives.

There's a lot of identity politics surrounding ASD and while there are legitimate concerns to do with discrimination, it can There are legitimate issues regarding discrimination towards disabled people, but some people in the more radical parts of the neurodiversity movement believe that society should accomodate for all of our symptoms and that simply isn't achievable. But I'm completely in favour of making reasonable adjustments for people, such as allowing people to wear ear plugs in work to deal with sensory overload. Whatever is the best arrangement for all parties.

In terms of a cure, I think we need to be rational about this issue. The word "cure" means a lot of different things to different people. For some people, "cure" means just being able to hold down a job or become independent. for others, it can mean trying to make somebody act "normal". I think autistic traits are not in and of themselves disabling, however when they are we need to treat the impairment. That's not genocide - it's therapy.

However, we have to accept that we have this condition because this magical cure probably won't exist in our lifetimes and even if it does, who's to say it will work on a grown adult? And this "cure" might not account for just being a weirdo. Believe it or not, sometimes people are socially awkward and introverted whether they are autistic or not. A lot of people on this site think that a cure will instantly improve their lives and they would have no more problems. Same applies to parents of autistic children ; they think that "if only my child was not like this, then they'd have no problems" , which they surely can't be serious. Even they must remember growing up with problems (assuming that they are NT). Cure or not, life goes on and if you live your life in constant self loathing, you're just creating a self fulfilling prophecy in which you will only ever fail in life. My attitude is that I own my life and I own my condition and while it's not my fault I was born this way, it's my responsibility to manage this and work with it. I'm not ashamed of it and I'm not proud of it.

As for the issue of abortion of autistic foetuses, well I am prochoice so as long as the mother can make that decision, it's none of my business. However I would stress that if it ever somehow became mandatory to abort autistic foetuses (which is unlikely) that would be unethical for a lot of reasons and I'm pretty sure the UN and Amnesty International would have something to say about that.



Moromillas
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03 May 2015, 9:44 pm

MindBlind wrote:
As for the issue of abortion of autistic foetuses, well I am prochoice so as long as the mother can make that decision, it's none of my business.

Were it NT fetuses that were aborted in droves, would you be fine with that? Would you also suggest others butt out?



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04 May 2015, 3:38 am

Thank god nobody is voting for autism cure or supremacy. Both are dumb.


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iliketrees
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04 May 2015, 7:36 am

None of the above. None of those summarize my thoughts on autism; I am somewhere between the cure and the acceptance one. I suppose I'd called it understanding more than anything else.



Moromillas
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04 May 2015, 10:08 am

iliketrees wrote:
None of the above. None of those summarize my thoughts on autism; I am somewhere between the cure and the acceptance one. I suppose I'd called it understanding more than anything else.

Partly a cure, what do you mean?



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04 May 2015, 10:34 am

Acceptance.

I don't necessarily want "support at NTs' expense" as the OP definitions suggest. That's not a justified thing to include in the definition and seems a tiny bit snarky. But I do want fairer treatment of those who are not neurotypical.


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iliketrees
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04 May 2015, 3:19 pm

Moromillas wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
None of the above. None of those summarize my thoughts on autism; I am somewhere between the cure and the acceptance one. I suppose I'd called it understanding more than anything else.

Partly a cure, what do you mean?


Hard to explain. We need help at some things, so we're not equal as acceptance suggests.



Moromillas
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04 May 2015, 6:31 pm

iliketrees wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
None of the above. None of those summarize my thoughts on autism; I am somewhere between the cure and the acceptance one. I suppose I'd called it understanding more than anything else.

Partly a cure, what do you mean?


Hard to explain. We need help at some things, so we're not equal as acceptance suggests.

As does everyone on the planet need help with some things. I don't see how it equates to eugenics.



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04 May 2015, 6:38 pm

i never got the whole cure vs. pride thing.i guess i am indifferent in nature


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Moromillas
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04 May 2015, 7:24 pm

Perhaps they've confused a co-morbid condition as a part of AS, like ID for example. Confusing ID as a part of AS seems to be common.



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05 May 2015, 12:37 am

Moromillas wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
None of the above. None of those summarize my thoughts on autism; I am somewhere between the cure and the acceptance one. I suppose I'd called it understanding more than anything else.

Partly a cure, what do you mean?


Hard to explain. We need help at some things, so we're not equal as acceptance suggests.

As does everyone on the planet need help with some things. I don't see how it equates to eugenics.


You're misunderstanding. Intensive ABA, a school life in special ed and probably never going to be able to work is not the same as NTs needing help with small things. Autistic people need more help.



Moromillas
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05 May 2015, 12:46 am

iliketrees wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
None of the above. None of those summarize my thoughts on autism; I am somewhere between the cure and the acceptance one. I suppose I'd called it understanding more than anything else.

Partly a cure, what do you mean?


Hard to explain. We need help at some things, so we're not equal as acceptance suggests.

As does everyone on the planet need help with some things. I don't see how it equates to eugenics.


You're misunderstanding. Intensive ABA, a school life in special ed and probably never going to be able to work is not the same as NTs needing help with small things. Autistic people need more help.

Perhaps you wrote "cure" but meant education for neurotypicals. You listed a few examples where neurotypical behaviour needs to be addressed in some way.



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05 May 2015, 12:55 am

Probably closest to acceptance, but I don't think we should receive extra support at the expense of neurotypicals per say....why would extra support have to be 'at the expense' of neurotypicals? I do not think it is practical to 'cure' autism but am not opposed to treatments to help bothersome symptoms/traits that the autistic person is bothered by but I disagree with trying to entirely change the underlying neurology or screw around with genetics to try to undo genetic mutations or anything else that may have contributed to a case of autism. We should be accepted as individuals with autism...doesn't mean its all great and it causes no issues or difficulties for us. Acceptance with proper accommodations and access to resources/treatments that can help us function better or decrease bothersome aspects of autism is what makes the most sense to me. I see no real sense in being proud of something I didn't choose/accomplish.

So I went with undecided...



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05 May 2015, 12:59 am

iliketrees wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
iliketrees wrote:
None of the above. None of those summarize my thoughts on autism; I am somewhere between the cure and the acceptance one. I suppose I'd called it understanding more than anything else.

Partly a cure, what do you mean?


Hard to explain. We need help at some things, so we're not equal as acceptance suggests.


We are equal as far as entitled to the same rights as everyone else...sure we have difficulties and need help with some things, that doesn't make us lesser people or mean we should be treated sub-human. Acceptance does not suggest we have no difficulties and are exactly the same as neurotypicals it acknowledges the differences but also addresses that we should not be treated as second class citizens because of that.