Are leftists the biggest hypocrites towards autistic issues?

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StrivingForGreatLiving
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14 Aug 2019, 11:49 am

The Democrat party as a whole will fight to death for concerns of LGBT, feminist, minorities, etc. But will never spend a second talking about the inequality of autistic people in society.

I feel that autistic people are the equivalent of working class whites who used to loyally support Democrats until job trends like mass automation started decimating the rural economies. The fact that the left starts using the term “incel” to describe men with no sexual experience who are socially awkward really shows they are indifferent at best, and hostile at worst towards autistic people. Plus, most incels are just mentally ill nuts.

A lot of socially awkward men are autistic, sure not most of them. But if 5% of all socially awkward people are on the spectrum, considering a 1% rate among the population, they are 5x likely to have ASD than average.



Bravo5150
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14 Aug 2019, 12:13 pm

What confuses me is that most of these organizations that claim to be about advancement for disabled individuals mostly seem to include other things to support on the leftists agenda that seem to have absolutely nothing to do with disabilities issues.



TheOther
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14 Aug 2019, 12:51 pm

For the record, I don't particularly identify as either left or right wing, however...

I think there are a series of jumps in logic here.

I don't think it is fair to say that 'incel' is a term that was invented by, nor primarily used by progressive people. It is a term coined on forums like 4chan and Reddit, with an apolitical background. Today, the term is most used by people who self-identify as being an 'incel', so the hypocrisy there would be the self-identified incels perpetuating the concept that they claim to abhor. The second largest group using the term is probably so-called 'chads', who I would wager value self sufficiency and individual power, which are historically right wing ideals if anything.

I am sure you will generally find that among politicians, progressive politicians are the most likely to be in favor of policies which will help people with every sort of disability. I do think that progressive people tend to think about things in terms of identity politics and power struggles (which is quite Marxist in nature). They would see all people with any sort of disadvantage or increased difficulty in life as being 'oppressed' (which in my mind is a rather destructive way to look at social interactions).

And again, I do not identify particularly as progressive, liberal, socialist, etc. I just disagree with your point.



KeepOn
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14 Aug 2019, 1:17 pm

The thing I find difficult about many on the Left is they're SO obsessed language and they're FOREVER CHANGING what's acceptable to say or what you can and can't talk about. I think this can be difficult for many on the Autistic spectrum who tend to have less of a filter and might not be able to keep up with all the changes. It's certainly the case for me. Who remembers when they threw Autistic James Damore under the bus because he wrote a piece on a subject that's apparently taboo these days?

Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect! :roll:

Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.



Sam64
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14 Aug 2019, 1:47 pm

Nah, there's too many white male Autistics for the left to get behind them. :lol:

I'm kidding, I'm kidding. In all seriousness though, I know what you're saying. They talk a lot about privilege and oppression, yet I never hear them addressing Neurotypical Privilege in society... :scratch:



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14 Aug 2019, 1:49 pm

Dude, many Leftists are hypocritical about everything.

Why should they be any different when it comes to autistic issues?


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TheOther
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14 Aug 2019, 1:56 pm

KeepOn wrote:
The thing I find difficult about many on the Left is they're SO obsessed language and they're FOREVER CHANGING what's acceptable to say or what you can and can't talk about. I think this can be difficult for many on the Autistic spectrum who tend to have less of a filter and might not be able to keep up with all the changes. It's certainly the case for me. Who remembers when they threw Autistic James Damore under the bus because he wrote a piece on a subject that's apparently taboo these days?

Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect! :roll:

Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.


This is an extremely fair criticism of modern left wing politics. It is astounding to me that people who were almost deified among the left wing a few years ago are now thrown under the bus for failing to be left wing enough or use the exactly correct (and ever changing) language. Joe Biden (who might not be super left wing by today's standards, but is certainly left of even Obama), Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren have all been criticized by some people on the left wing for not being progressive enough or saying the wrong thing. I believe this type in fighting will eventually be the destruction of its practitioners.

I also do think that, in a way, crucifying people for the tiniest details of every word they say is a form of discrimination against anyone who has a disability related to this type of understanding. To OPs credit (in spite of my earlier objections :lol: ), this can be seen as a form of hypocrisy for those on the left who advocate for acceptance of the disabled but also practice this form of ultra-criticism.



Fnord
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14 Aug 2019, 2:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
Dude, many Leftists are hypocritical about everything.

Why should they be any different when it comes to autistic issues?

Come to think of it ... the Rightists aren't at all hypocritical about autistic issues -- they just don't give a damn!

:roll:


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Bravo5150
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14 Aug 2019, 3:14 pm

KeepOn wrote:
The thing I find difficult about many on the Left is they're SO obsessed language and they're FOREVER CHANGING what's acceptable to say or what you can and can't talk about. I think this can be difficult for many on the Autistic spectrum who tend to have less of a filter and might not be able to keep up with all the changes. It's certainly the case for me. Who remembers when they threw Autistic James Damore under the bus because he wrote a piece on a subject that's apparently taboo these days?

Not that the Right are Autistic friendly, but at least they're more honest about it and they're less judgemental if you put your foot in it. It's scary how quickly the left "cancel" people if they're not 100% perfect! :roll:

Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.



I have met a few people on the right that expected forgiveness if they put their foot on their mouth but would give you the third degree if you said something wrong.



Ollywog
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14 Aug 2019, 6:00 pm

StrivingForGreatLiving wrote:
The Democrat party as a whole will fight to death for concerns of LGBT, feminist, minorities, etc. But will never spend a second talking about the inequality of autistic people in society.


All of these things have developed over time. The political left supports LGBT people now. They support women's rights now. They support racial equality now. All of those things were untrue at points in the past. It took years of those groups of people demanding equality for their concerns to become part of the mainstream progressive platform. Autistic people are beginning to do the same, but the movement has not broken through yet. That's why things are as you observe.


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Last edited by Ollywog on 14 Aug 2019, 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ollywog
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14 Aug 2019, 6:38 pm

As for "incel," I haven't heard anyone use it to mean simply a man who is socially awkward and cannot find sex partners. In my experience, when used derogatively, it means a man who cannot find sex partners (for whatever reason) but thinks he is owed sex, and therefore resents and despises women.

Possibly people do use it as you describe, but I don't think it is the norm among people on the left to use it that way.


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madbutnotmad
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14 Aug 2019, 7:59 pm

Sorry to but in, but i noticed a word i hadn't come across before.
The word "incel", which i found interesting.

I was thinking that some people with ASD may also be involuntarily celibate for various reasons,
lacking social skills, lacking the capacity for stress to have long term relationships, looks in some,
rigid blunt personalities (which don't always help a person attract or keep mates), but also
being vulnerable to be victimised by sociopaths in society (as those who are perceived as weak by sadists with twisted world views would likely straight away hone in on anyone with autism spectrum disorder).

I believe to a greater extent that is why i have been through problems with partners in life, not due to disability etc.
but because i have been victimised by sociopaths. I do live on an island with a small population, so hard to escape the people who you grew up with and hard to stop them from medelling in your relationships without perhaps killing them or something. I hope it doesn't have to come to that.

But there ya go. That is sometimes the reason why some people do not have success in this area.

I have had some relationships and have had some good times. So i don't hate woman, nor my past girlfriends.
I do hate being subjected to abuse, physical, psychological abuse etc. and having my life savings stolen etc.
Yep, no one likes getting fleeced. So perhaps i have more reasons to be an "incel" than anyone i know.

But I am not driven by hate. I do hate people who are sadistic, who victimise innocent individuals for entertainment and profit. but woman, i do not hate.

So i guess i am not an "incel". Perhaps there is a sub category of incels that aren't mass murderers who hate woman.
Involuntary Celibate who love woman who are beautiful and good natured. Instead of loving woman who are sadistic sociopaths. Yep. my problem isn't woman, its with sociopaths. I hate sociopaths.

That's it.
Thanks for letting me explain myself.



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14 Aug 2019, 11:30 pm

I personally do not understand tribal politics, both here in the UK and elsewhere.
For me i make an assessment of the policies the parties are putting forward.
Here in the uk there is a website which will give you the main parties policies, without identifying whose policy it is.
You then select which of the policies you support, at the end of the listed policies it will then give you an evaluation of which parties policies you support by majority.
I try to stick to this idea, even with the recent demonisation and persecution from the right wing tory party towards anyone disabled.



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14 Aug 2019, 11:47 pm

KeepOn wrote:
Also it may be that some on the Left dislike how logical Autistic people are too, because a lot of their arguments tend to be emotion-based.


This point is good, and I think you might be on to something.

Also, 'political correctness' is filtering for a purpose. An autistic person who has little or no filter is not being 'politically correct' which to the Left means they are making an egregious inexcusable error. I doubt autistic people would ever get a free pass on that from the Left. Condescension, perhaps, but not a free pass.


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15 Aug 2019, 1:44 am

StrivingForGreatLiving wrote:
The Democrat party as a whole will fight to death for concerns of LGBT, feminist, minorities, etc. But will never spend a second talking about the inequality of autistic people in society.

That's probably because the autistic community isn't anywhere near sufficiently well-organized to pull its own weight as part of an alliance of marginalized groups. There are basically only two ways to get taken seriously by either political party: (1) have lots of money to donate, and/or (2) be a large, well-organized subculture.

StrivingForGreatLiving wrote:
I feel that autistic people are the equivalent of working class whites who used to loyally support Democrats until job trends like mass automation started decimating the rural economies. The fact that the left starts using the term “incel” to describe men with no sexual experience who are socially awkward

"Incels" are an online subculture. The label "incel" was self-chosen by that subculture, not imposed on it by outsiders, leftist or otherwise.

Are you saying that at least some leftists have applied the label "incel," in a hostile way, to men who are not part of that subculture? If so, can you show us some examples?

StrivingForGreatLiving wrote:
really shows they are indifferent at best, and hostile at worst towards autistic people. Plus, most incels are just mentally ill nuts.

The Incel subculture does indeed have nutty ideas. I'm not sure it's because they are mentally ill, though. They might be just overgeneralizing from their own experiences. Also, as discussed elsewhere on this board, the rise of today's dating apps seems to have caused both men and women to relate to each other in a more superficial way than ever before, which may be one of the sources of today's "Incel" ideology.


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