Slate article regarding autism and sex offenses

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Autistic Sex Offenders Often Don’t Realize They’ve Broken the Law. Should That Matter?

Unless those minors had fully developed bodies, he had no way of knowing, who would?

I say sex education is very important for autistic individuals.

I knew since age ten that child porn was photos of naked kids. I had no idea CP was more than just naked kids until I was an adult but the thought of looking at naked kids being illegal made me not ever look at CP even if I was curious what the big fuss was because I didn't want any police at my door. Even if I also didn't know how it was harmful for minors, I still didn't look because why would I if it's illegal and makes you a bad person? I also didn't want to go to jail.

In my opinion, this is not just an autistic person's issue. There are a lot of problems with today's child porn laws and enforcement thereof. See, for example:

- Why Current Child Porn Laws Imprison the Wrong People by Macie Melendez, Huffington Post, 05/20/2013, Updated Jul 20, 2013.
- Capitol Punishment: The Troubling Consequences of Federal Child Pornography Laws by Andrew Extein, Huffington Post, 02/19/2014, Updated Apr 21, 2014.
- What John Grisham Got Right About Child Pornography By Jacob Sullum, Time, October 21, 2014
- The new American witch hunt by Richard B. Krueger, Los Angeles Times, March 11, 2007
- Child Pornography (CP) Investigations & Prosecutions - Draconian Penalties; Evidence Issues; and Fone v. State & Search Warrant Staleness by Robert Bonsib of MarcusBonsib, LLC, Saturday, June 17, 2017.
- The Witch Hunt for Child Porn by The Law Office of John Guidry, Orlando Criminal Defense Attorney Blog, April 1, 2014
- Our Assertions on the website of the National Association for Rational Sexual Offense Laws.

In my opinion there should continue to be severe penalties for making and deliberately distributing child porn, but not for merely viewing it, especially not for viewing it accidentally. As for viewing child porn on the Internet, I would favor a law requiring people who come across it to report it to the authorities, with a small penalty per image for not doing so, but no penalty beyond that.

But the current penalties for merely viewing it are ridiculously draconian, in my opinion -- and are contrary to common sense. As is mentioned in some of the above articles, not just autistic people, but many other people too, have been utterly shocked by the severity of the penalties.

EDIT: As I understand it, today's child porn laws are a relic of a time when child porn was very difficult to obtain, so the only people who had it at all would be people who were very much into it. So it was believed, with some justification back then, that anyone who possessed any child porn at all was very likely also to be an active child molester. In today's world, on the other hand, it is much easier to run into child porn by accident, in various ways, via the Internet.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 21 Jul 2019, 5:42 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Nobody taught me looking at child porn or stalking women are bad. I found out by watching the news of people being arrested for doing those things and reading about how angry people get about it.

Knowing that these things are "bad" is one thing.

It's another thing to know the severity of the penalties for merely viewing child porn that one might have innocently run into (e.g. while looking for adult porn, or while using peer-to-peer file sharing networks without sufficiently protective settings). Ditto for awareness of how law enforcement catches people for viewing child porn online (and sometimes makes horrible mistakes). I question how many people (NTs included) are fully aware of these matters.

It should also be noted that some people don't watch the news regularly.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 21 Jul 2019, 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The article says:


I'm wary of the idea of special privileges for autistic people in this regard. I feel that this infantilizes us a little too much.

But, as per my thoughts in an earlier post in this thread, I do think there should be an "escape from sex-offender registration" not just for autistic people but for any first-time offender who was caught merely viewing child porn, not producing or distributing it, and who has no history of inappropriate contact with children.

Moreover, as the article says:


I agree with the following other points that the article makes:

I don't know about this one. I think that the level of a person's IQ needs to be considered.
I don't think that having a ASD diagnosis needs to be a get out of prison for free card (like in Monopoly).

I think that each persons case is difference. I think that the reason why people do things can be due to a variety of reasons.

When someone accidentally browses a questionable video on a normal porn site, but does not download.
And perhaps questions what's going on themselves. then such a circumstance is different to a scenario
where someone who is obsessed with children goes out their way to find such material and stock piles it on their
own computer.

That is significantly different. And Police Computer Forensics can tell the difference as to whether a person has simple accidentally watched some material on a normal site, or they have searched out bad porn intentionally and have stock piled a massive load for personal use or to share.

In the UK, they are bringing in regulations that force any one viewing porn in the UK to pass age registration.
So as to prevent kids watching the adult videos. Which i think is good.

Although like drugs, it would be better if the government took control over all porn, so as to make sure that all porn is legitimate and not illegal, so safe for the public. Which again would help prevent people from finding inappropriate material and getting an unsavoury interest in such things.

I think that their are risks when it comes to people who view such material, and that people's fantasies can spill out into reality. Especially if people are less able to concern what is appropriate and what is not appropriate.

People who can not be rehabilitated may pose a risk to innocent society, so society needs to be protected regardless as to whether a person has Autism or not. Bit like violent people. if someone is dangerous to society, they are dangerous to society.

After reading the article. Where i can see the point of view of the lawyer who speaks about 1st time offenders with ASD.

I also note that the article did mainly focus on the case of a man named Dubin, who was highly intelligent, who had a PhD. in Psychology and who was working with kids, who was prosecuted for downloading child porn.

To be honest, if Dubin was low functioning with an IQ of under 75, was not working with kids and had done the same thing, i would think letting the guy off would be worth considering but as long as the person was forced to go to special training courses that taught him why it was wrong and educated him not to offend again.

However, even a someone who doesn't have great social skills who is educated to PhD level, has to know that downloading child porn is wrong.

If he had downloaded porn that was of people who were young but over 18, That would be fine.
But surely the same person who has a high IQ, who is worldly enough to have completed a PhD downloading porn where the people in the porn are significantly below 18 and obviously children, is obviously wrong.

I find it hard to believe that someone with a PhD would not be able to discern as to whether the porn was normal and not illegal.

You see, I have a BA Degree and have worked for several years as a Judo Coach with kids, and have attended many child safeguarding courses. I have ASD, and my social skills are ok. but I know without a doubt that downloading child porn is wrong and not an activity of a normal adult.

Sorry Dubin, but if i found that any one that i worked along side with with the kids was into child porn, i would get the police and child services. Even if they had ASD.

I also note, some people with or without ASD get involved with kids because they are motivated by delusional black magic beliefs. In such cases, such people are extremely dangerous around children. who they see as their innocent victims and sacrifices to Satan or some other fictional character.

Sorry for posting several times in a row on the same post.
I do have some more info with regards to people who have ASD who have to go to court or deal with police for what ever reason.

It is important that if any one who has ASD comes into contact with the Police or any other agency of such nature, that the person with ASD makes the police / judge / authoritarian person aware that you are suffering from ASD,
as this factual diagnosis information is significant and does have an impact as to how people perceive you.

It also may be a major factor as to the outcome of any dealings with such authoritarian agencies.

I say this, as if the Police etc. do not know, because people with ASD often look normal and can often come across as intelligent and articulate. The other aspects of our appearance may have a massive impact on how we are judged.

For example, people with Asperger Syndrome are known to not look people in the eye.
However, such body language can also indicate guilt.

People with ASD also often have problems with communication, suffer from high levels of anxiety, can't cope with stress, and are prone to act inappropriately.

Such behaviour would be suspicious if viewed by a police officer if you were accused or suspected to have committed a crime.

So, before any evidence or lack of evidence is considered, police and other people in charge may have automatically have jumped to the conclusion that you are guilty if ASD is not taken into consideration, and that is in the case where the courts are objective and not corrupt.

I myself, live in a strange little island with an antiquated law system which is controlled by people who i believe are corrupt, and at times the law system is used to legally crucify innocent individuals based on the whims of one or more corrupt but connected individuals.

I have witnessed it myself first hands for a person to be convicted of crimes that they did not commit based on no evidence at all.

Luckily, most law systems are not as corrupt. But still, let the people know you suffer from ASD anyway.
And if you have to go to court, make sure you have a lawyer or representative that understands what the condition even is.

Thanks

I just now came across the following article that sheds more light on the subject, including Nick Dubin's case in particular, as well as other cases: Asperger’s, autism, and sex offenders by Lenore Skenazy, The Villager, October 20, 2016. According to this article:

I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of playing the "autism card" for someone like Nick Dubin, with his doctorate. However, if indeed it's true that the majority of people caught viewing child porn are both (1) people with developmental disabilities and (2) not a threat to actual real live children, then those, in my opinion, would be very good additional reasons to get rid of the draconian penalties for merely viewing (as opposed to producing or distributing) child porn.

EDIT: Another article on this topic: Downloading a Nightmare: When autism, child pornography and the courts collide by Anat Rubin, The Marshall Project, 05.31.2017. And here's a podcast related to this article.

I have researched sexual attraction vs age in both NDs and NTs, and there is absolutely no difference in the ages autistic vs "normal" men prefer. I used images of girls/women from 12 to 30 years old. All men preferred the 18-20 years old, and this was regardless of their own age. There is a decline in how attractive very young girls are perceived to be, but it will not go down to zero. IOW, it's normal for men to find very young girls at least somewhat attractive. Given that, if there are more autistics getting in trouble with viewing child porn, then it must be for some other reason than that they are sexually attracted by them.

I still find it hard to believe that an autistic person would prefer looking at children just because that is where their social and emotional level is at. Since autistic people are prone to black and white thinking and adherence to the rules, they should be able to refuse to view child porn because it's wrong. If people are getting busted for it, that should say it's wrong.

You would have to be pretty sheltered to not know child porn is illegal. Did your parents not tell you it's illegal like how mine told me drugs were illegal when I was 8? Did their parents just hide life issues from them that go on out in the world? Parents, just be honest with your children and don't hide things from them and make the world out to be roses. Just imagine the embarrassment when the kid is an adult and is now learning things? Or they even have to learn the hard way and no one believes they didn't know because most people would already know because they didn't have parents that sheltered them and hid the real world from them.

I am wondering if parents are babying their autistic children so they shelter them from the real world? Now they get in trouble with the law. I am glad mine didn't shelter me. Of course they wouldn't, they wanted me to live a normal life and grow up to be a normal person.

And even if they didn't know, why would they still want to look as child porn? Just why? No one looks at porn if they are not attractive to them and don't find them sexy. Only way you can view child porn by mistake is if they had a fully developed body and were dressed maturely and they had snucked onto an 18 and up porn site and uploaded their videos there. That is something that can happen to anyone. Even if they did it by curious because they were wondering what CP looked like and what the fuss was, I can see how that can happen. Same as if someone hacks your PC and puts CP on it or you got some virus and CP got downloaded onto your PC without your knowledge. Or if someone online decided to give you a link and you click it but instead it takes you to a CP website. In Dublin's case this is what happened, he was looking at adult porn and then he accidentally came across a CP video because someone shared it.

Adults are so terrified of being accused of possessing in child porn, they are blocking minors on social media that are involved into kinks for their own safety and also reporting their page. I am seeing this a lot on Twitter. Now adults have come to acting like minors are predators for them and act hostile towards them they are blocking them. If you are underage and involved in any kink of some sort, they block you when you come across your posts or page. Times have changed. This wasn't a problem 19 years ago but it is now that adults are now leery of minors. They will even block other adults if they see they are interacting with minors and letting them on their page by letting them follow them or if they are following them. It doesn't matter if you are 18 and still in high school. It doesn't matter if you will be 18 in two days.


Also another thing many people might not know is if they come across a child abuse video who is being sexually assaulted or sexually abused, they can go to jail and be charged with CP for sharing it. It doesn't matter if their intention was to get people to report it and send it to the local police. That is what most people do with child abuse videos when someone posts it. But they are certainly not thinking if they were to do it with a child sexual abuse video, they also do not see the big picture when they are sharing it. They do not realize they are possessing in child porn. I didn't know this either until I read about it. Reason why many NTs wouldn't know this either is because they were never told it was wrong. Why? Because social media didn't exist then and the internet was different 19 years ago. No one thought that people could be filming videos and putting them online for the whole world to see and that something like youtube would be invented and people could just make their own videos and post them or make their own web series and people could post their home videos on there too or post their own slide show. Plus other social media websites like youtube have been invented like vimeo.


And here is another thing, anything can be CP. Even if the child photo is innocent, it can still be CP if you are masturbating to that photo and getting a hard on about it just by looking at that photo and you are taking innocent pictures of kids off websites and saving them to your PC to jack off to. It doesn't matter if they are clothed or have a diaper on only. I call it a gray area because it would make it harder for you to be caught because technically this isn't CP. But it would be creepy as f**k if I was on someone's computer and all they had were photos of pre puberty kids and no adults or teens. I would think they were a pedophile. If they were all ages, I wouldn't think anything of it and would just think it's really weird they would take family photos of random strangers and take random selfies of others, etc.

I think autistics generally are less sensitive to age differences, and this could be part of the reason they get in trouble for watching child porn.



The trouble is, a huge number of men find 12-year-old girls attractive and sexy. I suspect NTs are more likely to control themselves and ignore them, both because they prefer girls their own age, and because of the cultural & criminal aspect of it.

So lot of men are pervs then. The only exception is if the 12 year old has a body of a high schooler where they are fully developed so young men would have no way of knowing they are 12, not 18 or 19 or 16. I find it fine for 18 and 19 year olds to be attracted to 16 and 17 year olds since there isn't a huge gap in that age.

That's just NTish ageism. First, not all cultures have this view, and second, in some cultures, girls marry very young (before the general age of consent in Western cultures), and third, when girls enter puberty, evolution meant for them to have sex & reproduce, and that's why men find girls that have entered puberty sexy & attractive.

From the POV of biology, it all makes sense. It's NTs in our culture that are perverted and illogical. I'm sure this is partly why autistics get in trouble in this area. They don't share the perverted views of NTs that goes against our biology.

It's not an NT thing, it's a human thing and even autistic people have expressed how creepy it is for guys to want to date underage girls and find them attractive. No one can help their attraction but they can help with their actions.

Just because a girl can menstruate and has breasts and has gotten a woman body doesn't mean they can consent and go out and sleep with guys. At age 12, I had no understanding of sex and consent and wouldn't have understood if older men were hitting on me so therefore I was not allowed to wear any clothing that showed my body. If I was 16 and 17, that would have been fine under my mother's care but not for a 6th grader.