Heterogeneity of ASD

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What disabling autistic behaviors are really autism impairments and what is a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

In America, lack of eye contact is considered, rude, a sign of lying, or a sign that a person really wants to avoid you. If you can not do eye contact well in America it is very disabling. It shuts you out of most jobs, may get you a beat down or shot by the police who misinterpret your intentions. In other societies eye contact itself is considered rude. So in this case the lack of eye contact is a matter of being in the wrong place not primarily a matter of autism.

OTOH if your sensory issues cause you to hit random people that is entirely an autism problem.
Speaking of sensory sensitivities. Sensory stimulation is more these days. Higher levels of sensory sensitivities are not necessarily a bad thing, they are very useful for animals and can be for humans but after it gets past a certain level it is impairing anytime anyplace.

Let's take executive functioning. Poor multitasking abilities are much more disabling now than in the 1700s. I can not envision poor planning abilities not being an impairment in anyplace at any time.

Since being creepy towered women came up here I will note that the biggest issue that came up in the Aspergers support groups I attended in 2013 and 2014 was guys angst about creeping out women. And this was before #MeToo. But some of these behaviors would have not have been a big deal thought of as men being men by both sexes in the 1960s. The change in the ensuing decades is a good thing but that is not the point some of those behaviors would not have been disabling back then, now they are thought of as horrific and criminal flaws.

I completely agree with this. This is why I thought subsuming Aspergers into Autism Spectrum Disorders was a bad thing. It made a category that was too broad even broader.

We have to distinguish between behaviors which are kinetic for which there is unconscious reactions for and just simple identity labels like black , gay etc...

We can’t expect strangers to ignore behaviors any more than we can expect the woman to ignore the creepy guy following her or two men walking threatening towards you on a dark night.

We all have the common experience of being treated like freaks for reasons having to do with how our brains work.

We all have the common experience of intrinsic difficulty fitting in with the social mainstream -- difficulties not JUST because we happen to be different in one way or another, but also because we specifically have difficulties with the way the social mainstream socializes.

Those of us who CAN work for a living have a common need for work environments in which it is understood and accepted that different people's brains work differently.

Those of us who CAN'T work for a living have a common need for supportive housing in a form that respects individuality and does not subject its residents to institutional abuse.

All of us, especially as we get older, also have a common need for a support network of people whom we can depend on and who can accept us for who we are.

As far as I am concerned, "autism" is just a convenient label to bring a lot of us socially-disabled freaks together. It doesn't need to be a homogeneous, well-defined thing. Rather, the thing we need to unite around is the need for our individuality to be respected.

I agree that it would be good to have a classification system that more accurately describes people's actual specific problems.

But, alongside such a classification system, I think we should ALSO keep the more general label "autism" -- which would still be useful NOT ONLY on a social and political level, but also on a psychotherapeutic level. These days, it's still hard to find a psychotherapist who knows anything at all about autism, especially in adults. It would become even harder to find a suitable psychotherapist if "autism" were broken down into a bunch of distinct sub-specialties, each in its own separate little silo.

That's obviously false since such organizations currently exist.

You may not know what you are talking about when you use the term "autistic people." Don't project that onto others.

Perfectly precise and 100% accurate definitions are often not prerequisite to taking useful action with respect to the things that are to be defined.

The fact that autism manifests in a heterogenous collection of traits does not imply that autism is poorly or insufficiently defined or conceptualized. There is no rule or proof that a medical concept or any other concept must be defined in terms of homogeneous traits or aspects to be correct, accurate, useful, or valid.

Autism is only diagnosed by behavior only so that’s open to all subjective opinion with regards to mild symptoms at a later age.

I think what whale_tuune means is that you can’t put all autistic people on the same page in terms of needs which makes a one size fits all approach impossible.

The person who works lives independently and may be able to form some relationships inc romantic is possibly looking for higher needs of belonging where those who are profoundly disabled and the opposite end of the spectrum may not like their autism reject any identity label they just want their brain to work properly.

I believe maslow’s hierarchy of needs of humans identified this.

Whaletuune has a point that objective observation by psychiatrists missed experiential emotions/feelings/sensory impacts/cognitive activity and interests that fluctuate...wax and wane.

My daughter goes through phases of genius and sometimes totally doesn't get some simple things or over-reacts to small minor issues

Mona! You're back! Glad to hear from you again.

This stuff is all well and good. I've felt lately that we talk about this stuff a lot around a lot on here, but it kind of just dissipates and then starts up again. People in the outside world need to hear this discussion so we can talk about next steps more clearly.

What is the purpose of making such a point, though? Who is creating or trying to create organizations or movements that treat all autistic people the same?

Well Neurodiversity movement & ASAN for a start. They use "we" alot in respect to anti cure & potential biological treatments. They believe every autistic person feels the same way as them & claim to talk on behalf of all. Over the heads of those with different views or are unable to express a view.

May I comment on the original question / debate.
First, may I explain that i did read (fairly quickly) through the article named "Big data approaches to decomposing heterogeneity across the autism spectrum" by Michael V. Lombardo, Meng-Chuan Lai & Simon Baron-Cohen.

The authors, three people who I believe are highly qualified in the area of clinical psychology with a specialism in ASD.
I also am aware that Simon Baron-Cohen (who incidentally is Sasha Baron-Cohen's cousin), is the head of Autism Research in Cambridge, UK, as well as a well known leading author on the subject.

After reviewing the article, i believe the article is primarily written to debate the deficits of the present diagnostic model for Autism Spectrum Disorder, as set out by APA and suggests that a more detailed study / survey is needed based upon a much larger sample of the ASD population (i.e. big data rather than small sample).


Now, to comment on the original question.


Well, i do not agree. In fact, if anything, the researchers need more funding (from philanthropists/charity/gov) in order to be able to make more detailed research into the matter, as the article basically observes that the present data on the subject is flawed due to being taken from too small a sample.

I would also not suggest that medical support should be taken away from people with Autism Spectrum Disorder due to the fact that the medical community does not have a full or complete understanding of the condition.

To leave people who suffer from a condition that causes them daily distress with out medical support would be ignorant, and inhumane.

There are some symptoms for example that there is enough research that explains why these symptoms occur in some individuals with a formal diagnosis.

To ignore the present knowledge base on the areas that are now understood, would put people unduly under duress.
That would not be good medicine.

Although, i am not saying that doctors should have an open house for experimentation on their patients with ASD.
As that also would not be professional, and also would likely put their lives at risk.

I think that as poor as the present understanding on ASD is, ignoring the present knowledge base and the fact that people with ASD exist would be evil malpractice / neglect (see human rights for people with disability as well as laws on treatment for people with mental health ailments).

Because the medical community doesn't fully understand the cause of the distress / symptoms in people with ASD, does not mean the medical community should simply ignore people with ASD and hope we die quietly.

Even Hans Asperger, the nazi doctor who made significant observations on people with ASD did not murder all his ASD patients by neglecting to give them any health care.

The article's focus was really designed at attempting to ascertain the fact that the present understanding of ASD among the present medical community of medical experts is still not perfect or precise as it could be, and identifying the need for a more precise model.

As with many areas of health, the knowledge base on this particular area of clinical psychology is a work in progress.
In fact, most areas of medicine, are still needing a better understanding. Does that mean that people should not treat people with these other ailments (such as cancer, schizophrenia, the common cold, the corona virus?! !!)

Refinement is understanding is needed is many area, but because the present understanding is not complete, does not mean that this area of medicine needs to be neglected, ignored and given no funding.

In fact, nothing but the contrary. Autism Research needs to more funding, so that the researchers can then take data from the global population of people with ASD, so that they can then analyse the data and then create a more accurate and precise model for evaluation and diagnosis.

While we wait for that to happen, we do not stop existing.
Instead, we continue to live our lives, while being treated and helped using the knowledge base that is presently accepted within the medical community.


Medical care
philanthropic / fund raising endeavours
and a movement to raise public awareness

are still essential areas needed to help those with this debilitating condition
but also so as to pay for researchers to make more thorough research into the subject, as well as to bring the world up to speed with regards to the present understanding on the subject but also any development in understanding, as it happens.

Yep long gone are the days that people with ASD need to be locked up in bedlam and forgotten about.
Thank you for your interesting question.

Ugh, yes. It gets on my nerves so much. Seeing my classmates eat that all up because it fits into their cutesy little college diversity mosaic while treating me like s**t... yuck.

Do you have any proof that ASAN as a whole and the neurodiversity movement as a whole (not just a few individual members) believe that? Any of these "we" statements on ASAN's website that clearly refer to all autistic people?

Not sure what you mean by your question, there’s a general term called guilty by association.

ASAN’s mission statement is specifically anti cure anti biological treatment for all. If you support them you generally support their mission statement.

If you vote republican in the US election it’s generally agreed you support Trump not Biden and visa versa for Biden.

Saying "we" and "Autistic people" and conflating all of us with that diagnosis into one opinion/hivemind is dehumanizing.